Threads tagged #counting

Search posts
Forum index

Viewing all threads tagged #counting.

 

7b_wizard -

Thought of the Day

Yesterday, when flashing 9b, I had this reflection \thought \insight \enlightenment(?), that juggling or getting your pattern up, then keeping it rollin', is very much about shifting focus, how you shift focus from one aspect or from one property of the pattern and-or your hands' ado, to the other.

Let me explain, give an example or two:   when flashing nine, ..
- first, I focus on the first slow well aimed ball (kind'a paired with the second weakhand ball not awarely aimed, but following stronghand's throw, also slow), but also on being prepared to fire up the rest,
- then I focus on keeping that first ball spotted and orienting all the rest of the balls along that first ball's height, flighttime and trajectory in space (relative to the optimal front plane),
- then - if all goes well and all 9 balls up built a nice shape - I can focus on aiming the rethrows through the middle of my pattern.
- the next step, I'm currently working on, is to shift focus to pattern's top only and firing all rethrows into a hopefully well shaped top of my pattern focussing on the upper last ball up or upper three balls (maybe five) only.

when correcting, ..
when doing 7 balls or 5 balls and the pattern is ongoing and let's say somewhat stable, and my focus lies on for example simply doing left--right--a.s.o., or focus lies on in case the right height to keep, or in case on tuning the rhythm, or in case on reducing dwelltime. There might then be an outbreaker to bring back into pattern, and again the focus shifts to where exactly that ball lands, on spotting it, and on how its `wrong´ position in spacetime relates to my frontplane or the to the rest of the intact pattern, and focus lies on how and where I have to throw it in order to get it back into place.

All this happens within millisecs and is partly automized and-or unaware, but when learning, before having gotten there, these shifts of focus are maybe a major aspect of getting there, be they unawarely naturally found or rather by reflecting.

#JugglingWisdom (?) #focus #flashing #ThoughtOfTheDay

Mats1 - - Parent

That's a lot of analysis. When I try 9, I pretty much just throw them up there best I can and hope for the best! I think it's good to not overthink these kind of things and trust that practice will improve it.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hm .. it just doesn't come to me naturally, and by practising planlessly or unreflected, I might not get anywhere on that high level.
And also, I'm always in hunt for understanding what exactly goes on like in the brain when juggling, and hopefully find some kind of essence of how learning works best. And I some day want to understand what ``mastership´´ means.
I believe, knowing what to exactly focus on and when exactly, and also what there might be to anticipate, can help to find into higher levels and overcoming presumptive own personal limits.
And I wasn't referring to 9b only, .. I think, switching focus might be essential for juggling in general, like also for learning siteswaps.
But, yeah, .. trust that practise will improve it. sounds good and I feel that too over the long run. And, indeed, doing without thinking gets me my best most fluent runs, but first I need to work myself into that mindstate going through all crucial issues one by one to refind back into automation every stint.

peterbone - - Parent

I think that natural subconscious learning plays a big part of it, but there will always be those local maximums in the learning space that are difficult to get over that way. Some techniques in juggling can be counter intuitive at first. Watching better jugglers can always help but there are some thing you can't see. I'm always thinking of new variables to focus on, but they're not always things that are easily described and communicated.

Guili - - Parent

pretty much just throw them up there best I can and hope for the best!
LOL! I was thinking the same! but...
Let me share the way I see it.
Once upon a time I've discovered that the different things I've studied/practiced/learned in my life where interacting in my brain and, in some cases, helping each other.
For example, when I first began studying drums I was able to play pretty hard rythms, with different patterns on each limb (left hand, right hand, left foot, right foot), and I came to the conclussion that it was "a-little-less-hard" to me than to the other new players in my class, thanks to the coordination and disociation learned with juggling.
Now, when studying the cello I also had to break apart the challenge into little manegable tasks.
(like, you first learn the basic movement with the bow, then harder movements with the bow, then start pressing the strings with your left hand, and only then you start playing actual music)
The idea is that your body learns the basic movements well enough that you don't need to think each aspect of it ALL the time. Your body alone goes through the motions automatically, and your brain is free to think about notes, rythm, volume, etc.

I think juggling is the same. I've spent the last 5 months getting better with 7b, you know. Last week I've finally done it, made a qualifying run, and I think I got there thanks to the many hours of getting "familiar" with the 7-throw, using just 1 or 2 balls, and then letting my hands do their job when I grab the 7.
And me, I try to put my mind in a "focused-blank" state, if that's possible (like really focused, but blank... I really don't know how to put it better.. haha)

So, in conlusion, let it go, don't overthink, and trust your hands. You'll get it! :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Two keywords come to my mind .. for different things interacting in the brain, helping each other - synergy, i think, nails that; .. for focussed, but blank - yeah, that's a queer state of mind, not always easy to get there when mind is `busy´ wanting sth, trying sth, utterly relaxed, .. maybe that's a ``relaxed alertness´´ or readiness, a standby-state of mind, ready and prepared to react fullspeed and full focus anytime when necessary without any ground-tension, only with that Qi to the point. I feel, it's got a bit of trance or self-hypnosis, too, maybe.

I'm not sure, how the notions of ``being in a tunnel´´ or ``in the zone´´ relate to this.

But it's also different when relaxing and getting prepared before starting, or else during an ongoing pattern.

Guili - - Parent

it's got a bit of trance or self-hypnosis haha! totally!
and its hard to get there when you're into hard stuff, alrright.
but, it's worthy. and at the level we are juggling we need to train our minds as well as our bodies.
what I try to do before each run is visualise the perfect run I want, then toss the balls and start counting in my head the number of catches.
with 7b I go 1 (when the first ball, yellow, comes down into my hand), then 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 are red balls, then 1 again. so it keeps my mind busy.
with 5b I count rounds (like only count the times the first, yellow, ball hits my hands) so its 1 - - - - 2 - - - - 3 - - - - (where each "-" is a red ball) and then multuply by 5.
this gives more time to think..but then again, 5 it's kindda easy allready.
But i digress... what I meant to say, is to keep your mind occupied in the count, so it won't start overthink the throws and everything.

7b_wizard - - Parent

#mentalTechnique #theZone #counting   [for better finding related threads later again]

7b_wizard - - Parent

Sometimes, esp. when I ran into some mental barrier (of amount of catches), I'd rather not want priority on counting, but rather on the pattern, thinking nothing, but "up--up--up--a.s.o. (or alike)" in snapped-in beat, or to only count ``unawarely, subconsciously, automized´´ (if that's possible) or if there's brain cells left for counting while focussing on the pattern, on doing right in the first place. Or I then try to think nothing at all and just watch the balls fly. But my uncounted runs, utterly delved into the ado only, are rare.

Guili - - Parent

'd love to hear some long-time-juggler's opinion about this. what to do with your head during hard runs?
(and "bounce up a ball" is not the answer we're looking for.. ;))

7b_wizard -

How much are you aware of the mental factor and actively work against it?
  When ..
* your mood or mental state is generally dull from hot muggy weather or 'unwarm' form from chilly weather , or
* your mind is generally busy with other non-juggling stuff,
* or the conditions or some ache are generally unnerving,
  it will no doubt affect your movements getting slower, less vivid, unfresh. And it might affect concentration,
  awareness and alertness.

How do you cope with specific mental barriers when ..
* a certain number of catches is reached like near PR, or
* a certain number of catches is reached like near where you regularly get a critical phase and rather
  early fails before the pattern snaps in for enduring really long (I call that 'strange attractors',
  do you have such?), or
* when time factor (like only this and that much time left for a stint) is an issue?

  Do you then even notice it and actively e.g. recall your vision or goal or try to find into crispy juggling
  again, e.g. recollect, settle, decentralize in a short break, e.g. go one step back or restart from slow basics?
  Do you know other examples? Do you have any remedy against it, mental tricks to overcome these?

  Or do you take it as given, as low-flame karma, or blame it on bad form, it simply happening `on you´ ?

[ #mental #form #conditions ]

Austin - - Parent

I definitely never 'just accept' a bad day. If I keep failing or get angry I generally stop, collect myself and have another couple of calmer goes at the trick while deliberately monitoring the pattern and identifying my errors; then, I (try to) correct them and make the pattern smoother. If everything fails I will simply work on some completely different trick(s), for example if I was working on 5c and it just wouldn't work (e.g. a slightly dodgy pattern that I just couldn't sort out) I would maybe just work on pirouhettes with three clubs or backcrosses.
About mental barriers; I always count catches, which is good because it is (almost) completely subconscious and automatic, however it means I get REALLY bad mental barriers, especially with numbers (where I can have a PERFECT pattern but simply fumble a perfect throw one or two catches before my record because I'm nervous). And no, I (sadly) know no remedies against it.
A good example is yesterday, when my 5 club pattern was perfect, I got two runs where I got past 20 catches with no deteriation in pattern but simply fumbled an easy catch because I panicked.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I've found counting catches good for motivation initially. However, it's not clear to me if it's currently helpful or a hindrance, both because of causing mental barriers, being still slightly distracting (it's crazy automatic, but I imagine it's still eating some brain cycles) and because it can lead to frustration - since rather than just going, oh, that run felt nice and controlled, part of me always thinks "that run was 15 less than your best and you did better yesterday, not very good".

It's ingrained enough that I have to concentrate on not counting to avoid it, which is annoying.

A way to get over the barrier is to try and not count! Time records, someone else counting, videoing, or not obsessing over how much your record actually is are all substitutes. I mean, I can't actually get any of these to work, but they sound good in theory :P

Austin - - Parent

Your second point is the one that kills me; I juggle really badly if I don't count because I'm so addicted it's really hard not to. Also, I usually perform badly when I'm videoing. And no-one is avalible to time me for two hours a day. So yeah.

Not obsessing over my records? I'm so obsessed by juggling that it's most of what I think about all day and night ;)

7b_wizard - - Parent

when I reach a counting barrier e.g. near PR and get that thought-flash of "right-now-only-such-many-left-to-reach-it", I switch to thinking of the many many catches, rounds, sets of throws still ahead to what I actually want it to run much longer.

Also, I have such barriers also for minimum i want per day (like >320 for 5b enduring), then also for reaching round numbers of throws or sets counted (400 throws = 50 sets of 8 throws; then 500 throws; then four / five 'blocks' of twenty sets of eight throws = 640 th / 800 th). So I break a lot such barriers when getting longer and very long runs. It's then not so 'special, extraordinary, adrenaline-whatever', just sth to be left behind even when i'm about to get the few throws left to a barrier. (doesn't always work, i admit, but considerably reduces that barrier-panic to a slight rise of alertness)

So, basically, thinking of a whole lot of catches still ahead on such (whichever) barriers will downright force you to stay focussed on stable andor relaxed pattern in the first place (you can't go on and on fighting for every single throw in many sets of throws yet to come). It's only a colorfully marked 'step' (the "barrier"), not the whole 'stairs' (the whole long "run" of a mastered pattern that could go on forever) so to say.   And - it's been said a lot before - counted catches aren't the main thing rather than average and consistency (so, really no need to freak out on few catches in one single peak run).

[ #counting ]

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ You can use "Parent" to find the relating relevant posts to a standalone hashtag added later ]

7b_wizard - - Parent

One more brief word on "obsession":   one might want to reflect and distinguish "obsession (tends to 'bad'), zeal, ardour, fervor, recordhunt (if it's well controlled, structured), addiction (definitely: bad), enthusiasm, passion" and find a well-tuned (positive, fruitful!) mindset \ attitude, and not have one's bright shiny passion and sunlit fun drift into or contain negative shadowy doomy morbid zombie-y moribund aspects in the last place.

Austin - - Parent

True! Yes I meant it in a positive way, passionate is probably more accurately how I feel about juggling but oh well :P

Orinoco - - Parent

When drilling I mostly set myself a target of 20 left hand catches, or 20 repetitions depending on the trick. I practice until I hit the target then I move on to the next trick.

When I'm learning something new, I often have to give up & move on early otherwise I'd never get to practice anything else. But after I've hit that target once, I find that reaching that target again is magically considerably easier in subsequent sessions.

If I hit a target but with poor form I will often keep running the pattern for longer just to see if I can get it smoother & pretty much every time it settles into something more manageable within a few throws.

If nothing is going my way I will stop drilling & just play. Any chance I had at being a great juggler has long since passed so I have no need to take it seriously. It's much more important for me to enjoy practice rather than achieve anything.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

Proper nutrition helps concentration. I eat complex carbs a >90 minutes before juggling, and some fruit right before. Poor nutrition destroys my mental state.

A jumprope warmup helps me focus. While warming up, I listen to my body. If I am hungry or hurt I don't juggle. I am always changing my warmup to keep it fresh.

If you have mental barriers, try not counting. Take a video and count catches later. Does not apply to numbers.

In cascade patterns, I like to use one different colored prop to count catches.

Find a space to juggle that has the right sensory conditions. Juggling is a lot more fun in a warm, well lit space with some nice music.

Austin - - Parent

Ah I've never really thought about what I eat before juggling, so in future I'll make sure I'm not hungry.
In terms of mental barriers, I only really get them on 6-7b, 5c and if my hands aren't shredded, 6r; therefore the runs are quite short, timing is impossible and I have to try really hard to not count.

Generally I actually prefer juggling in the cold as it means I don't get horribly sweaty palms, and I don't really have anywhere but outside to juggle (exept on sunday nights). Therefore if it's raining/ really windy I'm probably in a bit of a bad mood that day :P

Oh and I haven't quite given up hope of being decent someday, so I am only satisfied if I make good progress each day.

Orinoco - - Parent

You shouldn't even be thinking about giving up hope in your case! You are certainly young enough & are already well on your way. In just the 15 posts that you have made here I can tell that you are thinking about your juggling a great deal in a way that is mature beyond your years. I think you'll do well.

Austin - - Parent

Thanks! Most of the time I am quite good at using good methods in my practices but I still am not immune to 'Just one more try syndrome'.
I do have one weak point in that I am awful at keeping a bad pattern together- thus my patterns have to be pretty well perfect before I get any long runs. An example of the opposite is Alex Barron (Has he quit?) Because in his first and second videos, his patterns are very messy but somehow he holds them together; he's a little bit better now though ;)

7b_wizard -

#recordsthread

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ Ethan .. 5b blind .. sooo great Shaolin art! .. especially that 6.-th wholly juggled throw + catch! .. Wish I could do that!

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ Ethan .. nice rumbling up the Hall of Fame, you did there!
Awarded: "whizz kid". greets the wannabe

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ethan (if you read these), what are you considering a 5 ball box? Based on your other records, that one seems a bit out of place. Do you do multiplexes in it?

Ethan - - Parent

Naw dude, it's a true box. I agree that it does look out of place, considering I mostly like multiplexes and strange siteswaps.....But I thought it would be cool to branch out and try something new, change things up a bit, you know.

^Tom_ - - Parent

There are still a couple of few possibilities. Do you mean (8,2x)* (aka c03 or c30 )or the stacked version?

(It's probably just me not knowing what the accepted version is - stacked or not-stacked).

Ethan - - Parent

It was (8,2x)(4,2x)*.... not-stacked.......I think that's the excepted one.

^Tom_ - - Parent

Do you mean (a,2x)(6,2x)*

It sounds to me like a hybrid between equal and stacked.

Ethan - - Parent

Dude.....I already told you. It was (8,2x)(4,2x)*....It's the only version that's considered a "True Box." If you want it explained in more detail. Go to this site. https://juggle.wikia.com/wiki/Box

Orinoco - - Parent

I think Tom's problem is that (8,2x)(4,2x)* is a 4 object pattern, not 5.

Although (a,2x)(6,2x)* isn't valid either! The only pattern I can come up with for a 'true' 5 ball box is (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*

peterbone - - Parent

I think that (8,2x)* is the basic 5 ball box. Basically sprung 4 ball fountain.

Mike Moore - - Parent

That's not what Mr Java animator did for the 5b box listing back on the IJDb, so it was contrary to my expectations. (8,2x) makes perfect sense to be the default 5b box, it just has some history against it.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Though, thinking about it more...

To me, a key aspect of the box is that the sides can be thrown up as perfect lines. As all the non-stacked versions lack this, I feel that that aspect is a good argument in favour of the stacked versions.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I think I would much rather refer to that as sprung four ball fountain, thus it's nice to have 5 ball box refer to something else.

Orinoco - - Parent

Just for Mïark here's a list of 'true' box siteswaps up to the limits of the modern English alphabet:

3 (4,2x)*
4 (8,2x)(4,2x)*
5 (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*
6 (g,2x)(c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*
7 (k,2x)(g,2x)(c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*
8 (o,2x)(k,2x)(g,2x)(c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*
9 (s,2x)(o,2x)(k,2x)(g,2x)(c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*
10 (w,2x)(s,2x)(o,2x)(k,2x)(g,2x)(c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*

peterbone - - Parent

When did these stacked patterns become the "true" box for higher numbers? The sprung patterns such as (8,2x)* feel like 3 ball box but higher and faster. The high throw alternates hands and the low ball zips back and forth.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I definitely think of as 5 ball box as the stacked ones. In my mind one of the key features of box is that you have no crossing points and it is basically a 1 dimensional pattern.

^Tom_ - - Parent

I'm undecided as to whether to have (2n-2,2x)* or to have (n-2) repititions of the (2n-2,2x) bracket before the asterisk as my "true" box - but I agree with you that the (4(n-2),2x)(4(n-3),2x)...(4,2x)* stacked patterns aren't the most logical extension of (4,2x)* to >3 balls.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

The word 'true' is obviously confusing. Also incorrect since the only true box is with 3 balls? Perhaps other words are needed for the 5b box variations.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Especially because "True box" can also refer to the box with a lid!
https://www.libraryofjuggling.com/Tricks/3balltricks/TrueBox.html

Eesh, our jargon needs work.

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

Would that be a *half* box with lid? And yes there too - Captain 'add the word true to stuff' strikes again! All these years and I've been doing a false box.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

One nice thing jugglingdb did was have a simulation of the pattern on the page. It didn't work for all patterns, but for quite a few it clarified what the actual pattern was.

Orinoco - - Parent

Settings > Post display > Highlight siteswaps :P

Mike Moore - - Parent

That puts simulations on the records pages? It only highlighted siteswaps in small talk for me.

Orinoco - - Parent

Oh, I see no it doesn't. I never put that in because I didn't want someone to watch an animation of (6x,4)* & add their record after clicking a + link which would enter the trick against (6x,4)*+bal for example.

not_mïark - - Parent

Miark is ignoring this thread.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

That's what I would consider true 5 ball box. I considered trying to learn it a while ago, but it is tricky.
And now Mura can run it for bloody ages so it's not so exciting!

^Tom_ - - Parent

I was just curious which pattern you meant, because it clearly wasn't the one you wrote - which is why I asked if you meant something else (although the something else had a flaw).

I don't need anything explained in more detail, and that page that you linked to doesn't include the answer. I just wanted to know which of the 3 options was your "true box":
I'm inclined to say that (8,2x)(8,2x)(8,2x)* is my idea of a true box, or if not, then (8,2x)*
I'd prefer (perhaps controversially) not to think of (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)* as the true pattern, but that's just my feeling, and that's clearly stacked - which you said yours wasn't.
Then again, you said you did (8,2x)(4,2x)*, which is difficult to do with 5 balls, and which itself is stacked... so I don't know what to think you meant.

I assume you did the stacked-and-not-stacked excepted 4-and-5 ball box, with an unknown siteswap, but probably not c03

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, I was thinking it was this version:
https://www.youtube.com/v/b8zY6_MC00o

(8,2x)* (which I think it what you meant) makes more sense.

I think that many people will expect 5b box to be the (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)* because that's what it meant on the IJDb. (8,2x)* also makes perfect sense to be considered a 5b box. It's one of the several unforatunate ambiguities of juggling vocabulary.

varkor - - Parent

That's what I consider to be the 5-ball box (the subject of the video, that is).

varkor - - Parent

There should be some sort of warning if you try to reply to a months-old post. Or a way to undo your foolish action.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I'm happy to get this post bumped! I was talking about this ambiguity just this weekend with some friends. After trying (8,2x)*, I'm back thinking that (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)* is the "true" 5b box. To me, not having to dodge balls in the air (i.e. throwing a perfect column, rather than a fountain throw) is a more important property of the box than having the even-numbered throws be of the same value.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Maybe "double-walled" versus "stacked" or "high-low" (JWikia calls it "high-middle-low") ?

peterbone - - Parent

I'm most impressed with the 10 catches of 5 ball continuous under the leg throws - assuming it's what I think it is.

Ethan - - Parent

Thanks!

peterbone - - Parent

Continuous under the leg with 3 balls is shown in this video at 10s. Is that how you did it? Sorry to be suspuscious but I've never seen it done with 5.
https://www.youtube.com/v/7z5C3RmlOkk

Ethan - - Parent

Yeah, that's how I did it....I saw it being done in some WJF youtube video, and thought it looked cool.....I might try it with 7;) jk! Now that would be impressive.

peterbone - - Parent

Awesome. Could you give the link to the WJF video?

Ethan - - Parent

sure! It was actually an IJA video. The under the leg thing is at 38s......and yes, I now realize it was actually 4 balls he was juggling, but you get where the inspiration came from:)
https://www.youtube.com/v/IKjREZ9QVqU

Ethan - - Parent

The guy in the video is an EXTREMELY good juggler!!

7b_wizard - - Parent

That's 4b shower 91 with the Ones under the leg in the video .. by "5 ball continous utl " I understand a 5b cascade with  e v e r y  throw under the leg .. O.o .. what exactly then was it, you did with 5 balls?

And could you point out or explain again, which "5b box " you recorded .. if it wasn't a stacked one, maybe it was that fountain-like (8,2x)(2x,8) one?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ 71 of course, sry * ]

Ethan - - Parent

The video I posted was only my inspiration;) I made sure the 5b under the leg was legit, it WAS a indeed a cascade with EVERY ball going under my leg. The video I posted was simply what gave me the idea in the first place. That's how I work dude;) Ha ha! not again.....The 5b box I did was a (c,2x)(8,2x)(4,2x)*.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Ah 'k .. that's unmistakable now. .. Wow! for both!

peterbone - - Parent

I'd love to see a video from you of both of these.

7b_wizard - - Parent

.. or was your box that stacked ( not(!) in the sense of stacked multiplexes, but stacked orbits in this caseb ) .. stacked version (8,2x)(4,2x)*, with 4 balls, then?

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ Matan Presberg .. some strong numbers records, you logged there. Very nice!

peterbone - - Parent

Is this the same Matan who juggled 6 balls at age 6?

7b_wizard - - Parent

I have no idea .. commented on records logged in records section that day. (https://www.jugglingedge.com/profile.php?UserID=906)

deleted - - Parent

post deleted

Matan Presberg - - Parent

Yes :) It is the same Matan that juggled 6 at age 6.

https://www.youtube.com/v/BP2Bve7UjSI

Matan Presberg - - Parent

also, just to set the record straight. I qualified 6 at 6, but not 6 at 5 or 7 at 6. I qualified 7 for the first time when I was 14 (I think, maybe 15). And yes, some of the jugglers from the Rochester juggling club presented me with a plaque at the 2002 RIT Juggle-In, I still have it hanging above my bed :D

deleted - - Parent

post deleted

Matan Presberg - - Parent

Thank you!

peterbone - - Parent

@ Ethan . Well done with the playing card juggling and your quick response to my records. The world record apparently is 88 catches, so start filming and upload to recordsetter when you beat it. Are you based in North Carolina? I ask because I updated my record around 11am UK time and about 5 minutes later you had beaten my record, but it would have been 6am NC time! Also, Is your 7 ball record really only 35 catches or have you done more and don't bother updating it?

I also have a more general question to everyone. How are people counting catches in siteswap patterns? The way I do it is to only count a siteswap throw if I throw that object again the correct number of beats later, otherwise it's not really a valid siteswap throw? A db97531 to collect would be 0 catches, but a db97531 back into 7 catches of cascade would be 7 catches with my method.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Service : ] 88 catches 3playingcard cascade by David Solomon, U.S., Feb. 2013, recognized by RecordSetter, https://recordsetter.com/world-record/consecutive-catches-juggling-three-playing-cards/24919#contentsection. Or here: https://www.youtube.com/v/GDS_xqf4-mI

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I count catches - don't have to rethrow - if I did a clean qualify of 7 balls, i.e. 14 throws and then 14 catches, I would definitely mark that down as 14, rather than 7.

For something like a db, I would think of it as a trick and would be unlikely to record it unless it was back to pattern, (and would make a note of the difference). For something like 933, I would treat it as a pattern and just count catches. I would be unlikely to record a non-integer number of rounds, and wouldn't include set-up throws. In the case of 933, if I did 6 rounds of throws and clean collect, I would count it as 18 catches, but feel slightly guilty that the last 9 wasn't really (it could have been a 7 say). But I would do it anyway ;)

peterbone - - Parent

Yes, if you catch an object the correct number of beats later then I would accept that as a counting method. My problem comes, as you said, when people record a number of catches that isn't a multiple of the period. For example, someone does db97531, followed by a throw at the same height as a typical d and then collects and records it as 8 catches. How can they prove that the last throw was a d when it had no beats after it? They could have thrown it much lower and just called it a d.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Note they may in fact be catching the next 1, which would be a lot more valid.

Little Paul - - Parent

This is why I've always preferred tracking siteswaps in "cycles" (to the extent that I've ever tracked them at all) and discarding partial cycles (where a ball is thrown and then not caught)

Although as a methodology, that's not without its flaws either.

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #counting ]

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ Mats1

9955 looks cool. Tackered it into JL and found the second set of 5-es is sort of being aimed below those 9-es falling at direful speed. Guess, you did it from running cascade?

Mats1 - - Parent

Yes, got a stable 7 pattern running and then went for 1 or 2 rounds (if the first set of 9s looked good) and then just tried to get it back to a 7 pattern. If you can recover a 7 pattern from it, I feel that's an indicator the throws are roughly right. There's no thinking about aiming or whatever with the 9s and 5s though; it's really a case of hammering out throws and relying on your juggling skill to get them right, without trying to think too much.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Just struck me that the 5-es don't go, say, above what's caught before them like in lower siteswaps (e.g. 773355 - the 7-s are much lower and slower, so the 5-es can go over them landing), but the 9-es are still so high when you throw the 5-es, that they can collide.

Yeh, without getting back to cascade, but collect, the last two 5-es could be anything between 5-6x-7-8x sliding to comfortably collect them, i reckon.

Tried some 9-es from early 7b cascade yesterday .. gee! .. they went anywhere. Will you stick to that trick or was that it for time being?

Mats1 - - Parent

-tried some 9-es from early 7b cascade yesterday .. gee! .. they went anywhere

You have to keep them really tight. It probably helps a lot to practice 9 balls.

-Will you stick to that trick or was that it for time being?

I'd like to get up to 10 rounds or 50 catches of it. Will you stick to it?

7b_wizard - - Parent

> "practise 9b"
.. long not there yet, if ever. Had one lucky flash, pushed by zeal of the 'impossible', early before accum. tens of hours trying to confirm.

Am just peeping into the options there are with 7b for giving one a casual jaunty try. Only non-cascade 7b upto now are not unfrequent accidental outside throws, and a °27[57]° throw some now and then (willingly, then, lol), not counting 7b-splits.

7b_wizard - - Parent

> "more catches"
.. sounds great, go for it!

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ Orinoco - "20 catches of 5 ball cascade isolated" .. Do you want to talk about it? ;o])   [no answer needed]

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

"Isolated" can now be used to modify a trick.

What does foot isolation mean? It could be many things; standing with feet still, standing on a folding chair, or standing on some blocks or bricks.

Heydar - - Parent

So I requested isolated as a modifier as I've been working on my technique recently. I appreciate it could mean various things to different people, but since I mostly use the records section to track my own progress I'm not too bothered about people having different definitions of isolated. For any records where the modifier is ambiguous or I have interpreted it in a non-standard way, I try to say so as a comment, partially so people who want to compare records can be aware of any differences.

My main example of this is juggling rings with a head balance- my policy is to only count records if they are done with a ring balance (which I try to state in the comment) as that is what I really want to work towards. I do juggle them with a club balance, which is way easier and as such I have done much longer runs, but I don't post the records because according to my personal policy it doesn't count. If people want to compare records they can see the comments and make their own comparison. Like when Peter Bone beat one of my club balance records with a teaspoon balance...

As far as isolated goes, I did over 100 of 6 ball on the ground without moving my feet, but I felt the knowledge that I could move made it easier so I tried it on a chair. Unfortunately the only chair available seemed structurally unsound and though I got around 60 catches I was constantly worried about it collapsing and how I might break my fall, so I opted for a pair of bricks as an intermediate. Either way, having seen your juggling Stephen I don't think you would find it particularly difficult to beat those records, however you decide to interpret 'isolated'.

I hope no one take this too seriously though as I don't really want to cause any arguments...

James Hennigan - - Parent

I think isolation should mean standing completely still. Vova moves over all the platform in this video https://youtu.be/UoZnOoWP2zM?start=98, and they call it 'isolated'. If they had made the platform a bit bigger, would it still count as isolated? If isolation meant no foot movement at all, then this ambiguity would be cleared up.

Also, most of my 6 ball practice is done kneeling down in my bedroom, and I consider that to be isolated because my knees stay in the same spot.

Heydar - - Parent

I agree that the amount of movement Vova exhibits is stretching the term isolated and I agree that it is in a sense unambiguous to have no foot movement at all (which is definitely what I would do whatever I was standing on). Kneeling/sitting/standing still/on a chair etc are all (at least to me) different in difficulty though, for whatever reason. As such, I think even if one would be justified in terming a run isolated by keeping the feet completely still, it would be useful by way of comparison to note how you isolated yourself eg. kneeling/standing on bricks.

Incidentally, even if you are keeping your feet still, would you count a rola bola as isolated?

7b_wizard - - Parent

[replying whole thread:] All I know about it is:
- Gatto in a vid says his father showed him this way of practising with (at its best) immobile feet (and also straight legs, knees not bent, i think, .. the way he did his 10 min 7b record). It is then - afaik and what i plead for - called "isolated endurance".
- While isolation usually (also? or originally?) means an illusion of an "isolated prop" (e.g. hoop, flow-rings, the ring of a lasso, a diabolo spinning on place, a spin-top, a gyroscope, .. ) or an "isolated pattern" (e.g. 3b cascade done walking around it being immobile in space, in its plane, or else slowly swapping its plane once around. Mike Moore did this, and I casually try that, and many more did alike, I'm sure, also in history).
- Burrage somewhere stated on this ambiguousness and blamed the term ( "isolation" in context of "on a stool" ((even allowing for steps on that stool then)) ) for being misleading and deliberately badly chosen.

lukeburrage - - Parent

Here's something I wrote on this previously in a discussion about juggling terminology that annoys me:


"Isolated" - To mean "doing a hard trick standing on a chair". It's another word that is creeping into general usage from a single juggling competition. The term isolation already has a meaning in juggling, and it does not mean "not moving". Isolation means a prop, part of a prop, or part of a pattern remains fixed in a specific location while other parts of the prop, the pattern or the juggler move around it in space. The isolated object becomes the frame of reference for all the other movement, instead of the floor or other physically unmovable surface or object.

To call "juggling while standing on a chair" an "isolated juggling pattern" means that EVERY juggling pattern ever where the feet don't move is also an isolated juggling pattern, the juggler just doesn't happen to be standing on a chair. It also doesn't make sense because there is no movement around the isolated object, in this case being the feet. Finally an isolated part of an object or pattern can't be physically attached to a surface that is physically fixed to the floor or environment. That means there is no skill or technique involved with it remaining isolated. A fork left unmoved on a table is as much an isolated fork as a juggler standing on a chair is doing anything isolated.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

I have used the word 'isolation' incorrectly, and have passed this incorrect usage to others.

The fourth result for the Google Search 'juggling isolation' is also incorrect: https://juggle.wikia.com/wiki/Isolation. The first three search results correctly use the word isolation to describe contact juggling.

Even Gatto used the term, 'isolation.'

The juggling terminology that I have read in your posts is intuitive, do you have a juggling dictionary that I could reference?

lukeburrage - - Parent

Normally I don't mind language evolving with use, but this case in particular is annoying to me because "isolated" already has a very specific use within the field of juggling, used by thousands of jugglers for at leas the past 17 or 18 years I've been involved in the juggling scene, without any confusion.

And then, out of nowhere, someone uses the same word in a single other context, and it sticks.

I think "doing a hard trick without moving your feet" is a strong enough concept that a single word or term would be very handy and helpful. I just wish it had been "fixed-feet" or "perched" or anything else!

pumpkineater23 - - Parent

It could be renamed contact juggling (feet always in contact with the ground). This would avoid any further confusion.

Mike Moore - - Parent

If I fast shuffle while I shuffle, would it still be contact juggling?

7b_wizard - - Parent

I'm planning on linking the 7b splits variations together:

* 7 ball ([66x],2)* records
* 7 ball splits records ( = [43] )

Cf. "splits-cocktail"

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ aawray - Hi, I'm afraid, your   [54][22]2 rev   is pretty much the same as   ([44x],2)* rev   .. (360 catches by Ethan) and these will have to be linked together soon or late.   Also any   [32t]   tricks are all 5b "splits" variations.   Great work, though. Keep it up!

7b_wizard - - Parent

@ peterbone - amazing stuff, you're logging there lately, 7b with club balance.
Is there a story to it, I may ask? Something you always neglected, yet still always wanted, or else an impulsive rediscovery, or else inspired by recent Scott Sorensen's 9b with pole balance?

peterbone - - Parent

A combination of things. Mainly I've been stepping up my training recently now that I have a good daily training space. 7 balls with a balance is one of the cornerstone tricks for me that I believe helps improve everything else. I was also inspired by Scott and Luke Davies' recent success with a balance. I'd also like to do 11 balls with a balance, which you can see me fail miserably at in the recent cool connections video.

7b_wizard - - Parent

Interesting. I think, I can see a parallel to how Gatto rates headbouncing while juggling a perfect exercise for cleaning your patterns.

However, good luck & fulfilment & fun with your prospects!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Becky's today's record - wanna see stickman do this there we go: 5561551

7b_wizard - - Parent

°wouie° what a brain twirler .. I'm thinking it:
1 5 5 - 1 5 56,
but still there's a lot of changing the 1-hand and the 6-hand puzzling.

7b_wizard - - Parent

and, oops, oh, hey, ..
Congrats, Becky, for retaking the record! :o)

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hey Jan. strong. do you do 3-count or 5-count or any number sidechanges mills messing clubs?

trebuchet -

How do you count the number of catches?

I personally find it highly distracting, but looking at the records on the website (reaching up to 5 digits) makes me wonder and hope that everybody isn't watching themselves on video.

When counting while juggling, do you follow a single ball in cascades/fountains, for example adding 5 every time you catch the tracked ball in a 5 ball cascade?

Keeping track of cycles when doing siteswaps, and converting to catches later, seems simplest. Is that the practice?

loganstafman - - Parent

For my 5-ball cascade, I have a song that I sing in my head that takes 40 catches to complete. I count how many times I make it through the song. I actually lose concentration on long runs and can't get very far if I DON'T count. I guess it's a personal thing.

varkor - - Parent

Like with most things, different people will use different methods. For patterns with a higher period, counting cycles is definitely one method, and probably the easiest for those kinds of patterns. For regular patterns (e.g. cascade and fountain), however, it's very possible to count each catch, as long as you do it modulo some relatively low number. I count in 20s, and keep track of how many times I've got a set of 20. Actually remembering how many sets you've achieved is the hardest part, but it becomes second-nature after a little practice.

^Tom_ - - Parent

I fully concur.
I've counted in 20s since I used to do a lot of outdoor walking on featureless foggy bogs.
Compass bearing + step counting was the only way to end up where we needed to be, but counting in sets of 100m (63 left feet for me at the time) could take too much breath and energy to count accurately.

20 worked out as a nice compromise between a large base, such that the count of sets wasn't hard to remember (or could be held on a hand), whilst avoiding all the excess syllables of having to think out the numbers 21+.

If it works well when you're cold, wet, exhausted, and dehydrated - then it's a good choice for me for counting when juggling.


For cascades and fountains, I typically count in 2s. Some years ago my 5b cascade record was arbitrarily stuck at about 60 for a long time - I'd been counting in 1s or 5s (or 10s). I switched to counting in 2s, and in 2 runs my record had gone ~100,~200.
Now I'm getting used to counting in 4s for 5c and it seems to be helping.

If you're going to count in 2s (or another even number), then think about which hand you want to be counting.
I reverted to starting both cascades and fountains with my right hand, as now all of the even numbered catches are throws which came from my left hand. I find this helps me to pay better attention to the throws from my weaker hand.

trebuchet - - Parent

Thanks for your responses.

I tried counting throws for the last few days and the results are good!

Being forced to constantly pay attention to what I'm doing, it's much harder for my mind to wander off. I barely perceive the songs in the background.

It is much easier to distinguish good from bad runs, and gradually increasing the goal for each run results in a more perceptible progress.

Cascades are still giving me trouble though, my usual tempo is too fast to use numbers above 10 (in Croatian), which makes me get lost on the sets count. By the time I remember where I left off, I already make another 10 throws.
Counting every second throw, affects the symmetry of the pattern, regardless of which hand I'm tracking. I guess I need some more practice.

IsaacDraper - - Parent

I have the last ball I throw (in a cascade) a different colour. If I'm doing five then every time I see the odd ball I've done five throws. It's fairly rough as sometimes but I find it much easier to count it in fives.

^Tom_ - - Parent

I'm not fluent in Croatian unfortunately, but the main reason that I chose 20 as my counting length is that in English, the names of the numbers up to 20 are shorter than those over 20. And beyond that, I've developed a way of shortening the numbers as I say them - Seventeen, for example, has 3 syllables when I say it out loud, but approximately 1 syllable when I count in my head.

As for the comment about asymmetry - given that one of my hands is stronger than the other and can somewhat run on autopilot anyway, I've never found much problem with only counting one hand's catches.
However, the amount of time you can save by not counting every catch, but every 2, 4, 5 or 10, is pretty big, and, at least for me, helps to keep relaxed, helps with breathing, and gives me more mental effort to focus on the pattern.

trebuchet - - Parent

I feel like giving some feedback now that I've been counting for a few weeks. I've also got a couple of questions.

I got used to tracking each throw in cascades and fountains. Using a base of 20s works good, I don't really pronounce any number anymore, it's more like thinking of them.

Knowing the exact count won't provide much more benefit than knowing a rough estimate, at least to me. I'm often not sure of the number of sets I've done anyway, and always go for the lower number, which probably leads to a significant set loss.

Also, I fully concur that longer runs are impossible without counting. I get the feeling I've been running for ages when in fact I rarely reach hundreds.


Now for the questions:
1. Do you count 0s and 2s in siteswaps?
2. Do you count in pairs of throws when juggling synchronously? If so, it's more like a count of successful beats than catches (which leads to a positive answer to the first question).

JackJuggles - - Parent

For my four ball I just time myself, although for five balls I am not as good. And since I use different coloured hackey sacks, which actually work quite well, the best deal for your money, I just count every time the black ball reached one hand it is five catches, although this may not work with nicer balls

7b_wizard - - Parent

[off topic:] hacky sacks are pretty small .. you have better control with normal size balls (that's because like three fingers can do the aiming whereas with hacky sacks it's only one or two) Hacky sacks (small balls) do have the advantage of needing less space on their orbits and collide less. I believe you can improve your 5b by using normal size balls (aswell, as just part of your practise trying them out).

Mats1 - - Parent

For siteswaps I keep track of completed (all caught) cycles.

For runs of other patterns or pure numbers, I count right hand catches only and add one at the end if my right hand was the one that missed a catch.

7b_wizard - - Parent

strong (right) hand's throws after six start throws 7b cascade:
.. hop .. hop .. hop .. hep (one) .. hop .. hop .. hop .. hep (two) .. a.s.o. divided by 8 minus one lacking left at end (last throw always from right hand) plus six for the start :o] (wristband would be great here).
Or: oiyjoiyjoiyyeahyj(one) aso. (like that blind immobile priest-wizard in world of warcraft lol)
It's more a mantra than counting. I don't always count (7b), 5b only when doing endurance .. with or without mantra, which is partly unconscious: sometimes - with 7b forced(?) andor hurried(?), I (unwillingly) fall into a 6s-tact, then divide by six -1 + start. Then again, when really wanting to keep that pattern alive, I fall into rythm of a mantra with short sequences going with (doing / couting /mantra-ing) every throw (while actually counting 2s in sets of 8), I haven't fully found out yet, how to count these.
I thus agree with varkor, that counting those sets (of a mantra) is the unobvious part of counting.
Focussing on the aiming area to feed with balls, I don't think, it's a good idea to follow one ball on its orbit through the pattern .. that is nice when you master a pattern by heart, but I find distracting when having to keep the pattern up.
For siteswaps, I guess I'd (usually don't count these very much) just count how often it went to one side, i.e. in cycles.

Mike Moore - - Parent

I count in groups of eight for patterns I don't think I'll run long (20-40 catches) and 16 for patterns I think I'll run longer (40-200 catches). I don't count catches after ~200, I go by time then.

(Which is why it's frustrating that there's no time option in the records section. I don't want to count catches for minutes! But that conversation's been had.)

It's Him - - Parent

If you know how many catches you are doing per minute then you can give a pretty good estimate of the number of catches if you know the time. After all these records aren't in any way official so are are only as good as the honesty of the juggler.
Nigel

Mike Moore - - Parent

"If you know how many catches you are doing per minute then you can give a pretty good estimate of the number of catches if you know the time."

Sure, but that amount of effort creeps over my tolerance for keeping records on this site. It's just enough trouble to be not worth the benefit of being able to compare to others jugglers who post their records (to me).

Orinoco - - Parent

There is too a time option in the records section. A few examples:

01:01:01 5b = 1 hour 1 minute 1 second
03:20 5b = 3 minutes 20 seconds
0:25 5b = 25 seconds
2:15 5b = 2 minutes 15 seconds
0:5 5b = 5 seconds
1h10m5s 5b = 1 hour 10 minutes 5 seconds
5m 5b = 5 minutes
20s 5b = 20 seconds

Mike Moore - - Parent

Ah, useful! Could this be added to https://jugglingedge.com/help/tossformat.php (or is it somewhere else?)?

Orinoco - - Parent

It's lumped together with the note about custom measures in the small print under catches, which should probably be split into separate sections & listed under a more descriptive heading of 'measurements' or something similar. Will have a proper think about how best to present it after I've caught up with things a bit.

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #counting ]

Ilia Poliakov -

About records:
If I juggle synch fountain, every catch = 2 cathes?
If I do 51 - every "5" - is a catch or not?
The same in siteswap like 7131 - one time doing this siteswap is 4 catches or 1?
Thank you for answer!

^Tom_ - - Parent

Everything counts, each time a ball goes into a hand.

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

sometimes it is very hard to understand. So, siteswap 552 - I catch twice, but period is 3. What I need to do?

^Tom_ - - Parent

I would say that it depends on whether you have "active" 2s. If you throw the 2, then count it. If not, then don't.

I seem to remember that there have been threads on this subject before. Maybe the advice from then is better than mine :)

Little Paul - - Parent

I would say that in the case of 552 you should count the 2's as it's still possible to drop them.

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

hmm, I dont think so. I can drop only 55.
I think averybody write different catches. It is not good. And there are few videos to understand.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

You could try my strategy of not juggling patterns with 2s in them ;)
I think counting a ball that has been thrown (or zipped) is a good rule, so in 5551 I would count 1 round as 4 catches, but 5524 I would count one round as 3 catches.

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

thanks

Julius - - Parent

Stop counting catches but count rounds. Only because the number of catches is higher than the number of rounds.. doesn't mean you can juggle better when you count catches instead of rounds.
Or even better: stop counting and focus on the juggling. If you're counting high numbers.. doesn't mean you can juggle at all.

https://youtu.be/B-Wd-Q3F8KM

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

Of course, I count not every catch. Mostly I count every 3 catch, because it is focuses on two sides. Before I counted every 4 or 8 cathes, but it is not symmetrical feeling.
Sometimes I count every red ball (other balls white). In siteswaps I count every round.
And don't worry, I can juggle without count, but it is very interesting to tricks from this site and save record

The Void - - Parent

"If I juggle synch fountain, every catch = 2 cathes?"
- A right hand catch is one catch, a left hand catch is one catch. So a pair of catches is 2 catches.
"If I do 51 - every "5" - is a catch or not?"
- Yes, and every 1 is a catch too.
"The same in siteswap like 7131 - one time doing this siteswap is 4 catches or 1?"
- 4 catches.

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

Thanks.

Orinoco - - Parent

Yep, this subject used to come up a lot back in the days of Bogleg/the IJDb. I agree with Tom, Brook & Void in that the general consensus is to count anything that lands in your hand, so everything that isn't a hold.

The Void - - Parent

Not sure what I think about the idea that 2s are counted some times but not others. Seems inconsistent....

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I think defining 'active' throws can allow for consistency - by defining static 2s not to be counted you get the bonus the there is no silliness by allowing 3, 522 and 72222 to all describe the same thing - whichever way you describe a 3 object cascade, it is the same number of catches, unless you are actually doing something with your 2s.

The Void - - Parent

Yes, true.
But let's say you want to compare 2 of your own records:
423, and 423 with a-quick-round-the-opposite-arm 2

Let's say you have a record of 6 cycles of the first one, so your record is "12" catches.
And you have a record of 4 cycles of the second one.... so your record is "12" catches.

That looks wrong to me. I'd say it should be 18 and 12.

I think I don't like the anomaly. I may be in the minority. I often am.
Aren't we, Marvin?

Brook Roberts - - Parent

It's true, that looks wrong to me too.

I think the actual solution here would be to count cycles not catches...

The Void - - Parent

...thus requiring Orinoco to add yet another input option and database entry to the already labyrinthine records structure?
^_^

Orinoco - - Parent

& the 12 catches of 423 & 12 catches of 42(t)3 actually looks right to me! Fortunately the myriad of ways that you can look at records allows every one to be right & wrong in equal measure. You can already record cycles by using a custom measure eg.

(4 cycles) 3b 423

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

I can write (4 cycles)? And how you transform it to table of records?

Orinoco - - Parent

If you mean will it count towards getting the top record it won't only catches for toss juggling & times for non toss juggling tricks count towards top records by majority rule.

However, if you record all your records with the same custom measure (eg cycles in this case) then if you drill down to your records for that trick the graph will chart the custom measure (or the measure that you use most often if you have recorded records using multiple different measures).

Brook Roberts - - Parent

I'm all in favour of not juggling patterns with 2s, which I think is an easy solution from the programming point of view!

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

interesting idea.

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #counting #siteswap ]

Dylan -

So, hows about a thread where people just chat and post replies often about their practice sessions?

To be honest, I just feel like talking about juggling more and want to chat about it, share and read other peoples experiences and everything all in the one place! I know you can create threads for bigger things and stuff, by why not have a topic based on random juggling discussion?

For example, and to start,
Today I spent quite a bit of time outside in the sun juggling, mainly practicing 5 balls and working on patterns to help out with 5 balls, 55550 55500 50505 5551 552 etc.
I feel like i'm progressing quite well as now once warm I can flash 5 about 8/10 attempts and have had runs of 8 balls a few times, with 6 and 7 feeling not much harder than 5 once warm.

With 4 balls I worked a fair bit on both sync and asyc 4 ball fountains, getting some of my longest runs yet! While also starting to try half showers, reverse fountains and pistons- which I had a nice run of too :).

I also spent a fair bit of time improvising with 3 balls, trying some clay motion juggling, behind back catches, low fast patterns including factory (which was pretty cool done really small), mills and shower. With a bit of time trying to improve my over the head juggling, backcrosses, 441 and 531 patterns.

Was a pretty long day of juggling but a great session all in all. There were a few frustrating moments, but mainly pure fun!

Dylan

The Void - - Parent

I went to #Altern8 on Monday, played a little diabolo - mostly working on my slack and string-figure stuff.
Usual 5-club practice, managed to get my self-imposed target of "at least one run of 50+ catches per session" (68, since you ask).
Self-certified myself as kendama 3rd Dan again. (Training hard for 4th Dan exam this summer). Also ran the BKO advanced tricklist with 12 misses.

A usual day at the office for me. #actualjugglingtalk

Dylan - - Parent

Nice work on the 68 catch run with 5 clubs!
Do you always count your runs when you're working on 5 clubs or film and review them?
I generally count when trying something new or when I set myself a goal like yours and try to achieve it- though I find sometimes it can be distracting, sometimes helpful depending on the pattern.

I used to be right into diablo when I was young but never really got that great, it could be something I get into in the future though, but for now my spare time at home is for juggling =P.

The Void - - Parent

I always count 5 club runs as I'm doing them. Some people seem to find that distracts them, but I've never had a problem with it.

Little Paul - - Parent

I go in phases with counting catches. I can go for years not counting throws then decide it's a good idea and count everything. Then at some point decide that counting is getting in the way and swap back to not counting.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Not the void, but I've got into the habit of counting strongly enough that I tend to count almost everything that I'm learning. With things like 7 balls/5 clubs I sometimes have to concentrate not to count and distract myself. I don't think it makes things much harder for me anymore since I'm so used to it, but I do worry it might have an affect on my patterns - I only count throws from one hand and wonder if this is why some of my patterns tend to be a bit lopsided.

barnesy - - Parent

I'm also in the habit of counting. For me, it's anything with 5 or more objects. I generally count up to 10 then start again, only sometimes managing (or bothering) to keep track of the number of tens. Something that interested and amused me recently was the realisation that I'd starting counting in eights instead of tens. Took me a while to realise that's because I've been learning eight count based dancing stuff lately!

emilyw - - Parent

I count in 4s and 16s. That is, it goes One (two three four) Two (two three four) Three (two three four) Four (two three four) and then it repeats.

This is (I think) because I am a software developer.

It is completely ridiculous and I have no idea what the point is.

Little Paul - - Parent

you mean you don't count just in hex or octal?

emilyw - - Parent

No and I don't start from zero either. Bad software developer!

Little Paul - - Parent

You do count using unicode characters though... right?

emilyw - - Parent

I find it's pretty difficult to hold down the ALT key while juggling.

Little Paul - - Parent

You don't have enough Ctrl of your pattern?

Dylan - - Parent

Hahahaha!
Nice one Paul! =d.

Little Paul - - Parent

I tend to count in 8s as well for some poorly understood reason.

I think it probably goes back to when I was DJing all those years ago, and got used to thinking in terms of 2 bar phrases which repeat twice to make a 4 bar phrase - which seems to be how a lot of the dance music I was playing is structured.

Orinoco - - Parent

I also count catches, but I don't know why. I always recommend to anyone who asks me to focus on making the pattern smooth rather than counting how long it lasts.

Often I will start off a pattern, start counting, then get halfway through & question why I am counting such awful out of time, out of place, over spun throws, then I will focus on straightening everything out, then I might start counting again, but I *always* restart counting from 3.

7b_wizard - - Parent

[ #counting ]

Little Paul - - Parent

I actually did some juggling yesterday. Inspired by one of the IJA Tutorial Contest entries, I spent some time working on a trick I've tried a few times over the years and never made any progress with.

The tutorial I watched broke it down in a way I'd not thought of and it made a little more sense than it ever has before.

I'm not going to tell you what trick it was though, wouldn't want to give away any clues as to how my judging process is going ;-)

Little Paul - - Parent

talking of the tutorial videos - I've decided to start deducting points for hipsters with stupid facial hair.

Dylan - - Parent

You're a funny one =P.
I just hope my facial hair style at the time wasn't 'hipster' =d.

Orinoco - - Parent

=d

Is that a smiley trying to lick his own eyeball?

Dylan - - Parent

That's awesome that one of the tutorials was able to help, there's some really good ones in there =].
I definitely see myself using a few at least throughout my juggling but will probably still watch other ones too. When learning something new I feel as though I always want at least two opinions on how to get started/learn it. I also sometimes like to read an explanation also.

Although if a tutorial is very clear and states exactly what to do I'd go back to that one and watch it a few times while learning.

Anyone else have a similar habbit for learning new patterns/tricks?

P.s. It hardly matters if judges give away stuff now, the submitting period is over so there's nothing we can do to change our tutorials now =P. But I guess it's funner it all being a secret until the very end!

Also this brings me to another questions, once the judging is over and the winners decided, would the judges (or at least some) explain how they decided on their top ten? I think it'd be fun to hear how everyone's done it and the differences between different peoples favourites and why- though I believe this will be in the eZine?


Anyway, that is all for now =].

Dylan

Little Paul - - Parent

The judges have been asked to pick their top 10, and to make some comments about those 10 saying what they liked about them and why they picked them - so there will be some info around that. As you say, I expect that'll all be on the eZine.

I've voted now, but I'm still going to keep the details secret. Partly because it's more fun if it's a surprise, but partly because based on the reference number the voting site gave me last night - I'm the first judge to make it as far as voting, and I wouldn't want to influence the other judges at all!

Dylan - - Parent

Yeah I reckon it's better keeping it to yourself until the announcement =] surprises are awesome and I reckon everyone would prefer it like that =]. Was there a deadline for the judges or just in their own time?
It seems like a much better system this year though, much more fair than just peoples votes- which would basically be a popularity contest.

It's going to be fun to see how close the judge's top tens are too (although I guess they'll kinda stay anonymous) =P.

Brook Roberts - - Parent

Even if you try not to just vote for your friends, there are too many tutorials for most people to watch anyway before voting, so I'm sure most people who voted last time didn't watch half of them anyway.

 

Subscribe to this forum via RSS
1 article per branch
1 article per post

Forum stats