Viewing all threads tagged #dangrades.
EJC 2016 Almere, Endurance Contests, Games - Nick Webster -- [ Playlist, 7 vids ]
It struck me, that What could be better to rate trick difficulty, than such contests? even without any theory on reasons and properties of patterns for them to be more or less difficult than another pattern or different opinions on patterns. And, together with world records for tricks and patterns, establish a raw Dan-System for juggling patterns and skills. (By simply the time endured or rounds of it done)
#TrickDifficulty #DanGrades #TrickRating #Contest
[ // Like, I'd roughly say maybe 1. 8b - fbd97531, 2. 7c tricks, 3. 7b - bd97531, 4. 7c groundstate, 5. 7b tricks, 6. 6c tricks, 7. 7b groundstate [Ouffh! there it is, finally], a.s.o. [rings don't count, cos' I never held more than one in hands; kendama already has it's own system, and Devilstick should get own too, then] .. but - you get it: .. ]
I think it's feasible.
[ x-post /reddit: People have meanwhile managed to sort out, clip and upload their EJC-takes, so "ejc 2016" (YouTube), same query on JTV, now find tons of recent stuff like Combat, Workshops, Kendama, Show .. ]
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
But... Difficulty does not equal simply the amount of people who can do a trick. Some moves are very popular compared to other, easier ones, but will have higher records/more people who can perform them.
On the other hand .. if there were a rating-system, and there were unpopular (maybe hard, maybe easy?) tricks neglected, then one could pick these out and endure them or do many rounds of them and it would compare to those mainstream tricks' times or rounds pushed by many people prefering those latter.
So, easy or hard records that are still ``free´´ because they're not so popular, will find someone who wants that record soon or late .. for easier unpopular tricks, you'll have that Brian Pankey on recordsetter syndrome (not so many people will even bother to beat those), but for harder respectable tricks and records worthwhile working on, soon or late someone will ``attack´´ or intitialize those (as they get an entry on e.g. JWikia or Guiness, or recordsetter, wherever, that might last).
So with a rating system established, tricks might become more popular, people more eager to get these down.
Which will have any system be dynamic and grow and modified. And a dynamic self-enforcing versus self-deteriorating redundance between tricks' ratings, records, and their popularity. .. Maybe?
But take Gatto. Look at his records. There's going to be inbalance there for a long time, because he only ever did a limited selection of tricks, but di them for longer than seems possible. Especially some ring records and the 6-7 club records, and some balance stuff.
A good rating system can sort such things out by taking data from several sources (Contests, World Records) not only from one person or one event. And that imbalance is an imbalance in skill in favor Gatto, then, or of the tricks he pushed. Still it reflects what can possibly be done, or has been done. Many more people attempting those tricks for rating points and a grade in a rating system will flow into the rating of that trick.
Also, a decent mathematical and statistical rating system can manage a "reliability" coefficient by the number of data, events, attempts, unique people, records logged, contest for a trick rating.
I'd say most people's ratings of how hard tricks are are rather arbitrary because everyone is different, and work on different things. For one I'd say 7c tricks are way harder than fdb97531- unless you're talking about running it. Also some people will invariably be naturally better at different props, and some people spend most practice on onlly one prop. I personally am good at balls, and would be good at rings if I had a regular practice place. But I'm not good at clubs. I think in general stronger built people are better at clubs, because they are always quite heavy. Also I think getting short runs of club tricks are harder than short runs of ball tricks, for the same difficulty to get solid. Also spin moves are way under rated in terms of difficulty- I practice them about the same amout as say 5b 74635, but I'm awful at them. The only people who have any chance at them are those who dedicate huge amounts of practice to them.
Yes, but there's taller and less taller absketball players. If Snir does 11 rounds of db97531 with balls, but no one gets more than two rounds of b97531 with clubs, then the club trick is rated harder in a rating system. If of 100 jugglers enduring 7b, one does 2 minutes and a few, then of 100 jugglers enduring 5c, one does upto 3 minutes, then 5c is a bit easier rated in a rating. Adn there's also world records to compare those two. For spin moves, you simply count the number of spins .. few out of many people getting only few spins shows, that it's a difficult trick.
Ofek's done 25 rounds :P but I'd say that if you were going to rate them you'd need a wider base, because Ofek is a god, and there is no-one quite like him that does clubs or rings at the moment, so it's hard to compare. Also you have 7b tricks as harder than 6c tricks, but people can run far more complex 7b tricks than 6c ones.
There will be a wider base, when ..Many more people attempting those tricks for rating points and a grade in a rating system will flow into the rating of that trick.
It will then confirm, Ofek is best at this and how hard the trick is if no one else gets near. Still people won't need to renounce on trying, even they can't do better than Snir, but they get points or a grade.
Scott Seltzer - - Parent #
I think in general stronger built people are better at clubs, because they are always quite heavy.
I disagree. I've seen small young girls juggle 5 clubs with tricks. They obviously don't muscle their way into the juggling. They have excellent form and efficient movements with no wasted energy, and that's why they succeed.
Little Paul - - Parent #
This.
Luke Wilson was built like a stick insect and made 5c look effortless.
Vova & Olga were passing ridiculous numbers of clubs when they were young teenagers.
Peter Bone, Luke Burrage, any number of jugglers you see at an EJC are all on the slight-side but have rock solid 5C.
Clean, efficient technique saves energy, and ultimately that's what you need.
There is only a short run of 5C in this video, but it's short because that's what's needed artistically not because of anything else, but look at the 4C section at the end closely. It's like the clubs are barely there.
https://youtu.be/d5zwlJFbahY
Yes, agreed, but is anyone trying 6-8 clubs for the first time going to have clean, efficient technique? Well maybe Ben Thompson... I'm not really talking about 5c, in perspective that's an incredibly easy trick, I'm talking about high numbers and extreme technical dificulty, or at least what is still very hard for the person. What I think is that if someone made 150g smaller clubs I and other in a simiair position would easily be able to release 7, without losing form and nearly killing myself to get them out in time. Problem is, no-one makes lighter clubs...
Indeed size != strength
Peter Bone is an avid rock climber. Rock climbers, gymnasts & ballet dancers account for some of the strongest people I know.
It's not about how many muscle fibres you have (big bulging muscles) it's about how many of those fibres you can activate at the same time.
Good point, I hadn't thought of that! Perhaps I should start rock climbing then :P
Yes, but wouldn't that be because they can't muscle their way in? The best way to progress is to push yourself, but if you can't make as many error corrections due to less strength, doesn't that decrease progress?
Why "muscle", why "strength", .. why not "agility", trained "speediness of movements" (reaction time)? Or also "good sense for timing and rhythm and anticipation", "throwing technique". Athletes work with much greater weights than beanbags (disc, javelin, hammer, and all), after all (and very much need technique still also). So from their view, we might all be doing lightweight sport, aren't we?
#technique
I'm talking about clubs mostly here, and they weigh 220g or more; put four in one hand and you have 1kg, which you have to throw all of to a height of about 5m in about 2 seconds. That's hard work.
When I see Mariia Sobolieva juggle 7b and flash (or qualify?) 9b, with thin muscleless but long arms with great physical lever, (also Mc Gillivray, maybe LØfberg, others), then I even think, that women might have an advantage, an Edge, for approaching juggling by skill, not by effort as men maybe tend to do more. Especially when getting stuck, men will use wrist weights, and do work out .. women, dunno, maybe try differently to get it easy, maybe are more liable to get into better technique. - Jus' my theory .. hope there's sth to it (cos' that's how I work). - I'd concede, 7b tricks, very high throws, 9b, numbers, might be a threshold level for not doing without effort anymore, and additional strength then being very helpful if not necessary, as effortish trying mostly comes before doing it right, well, as swift and easily as can. (But, hey, not for 5b, 5b tricks, 6b, 7b groundstate)
[ #gender #worldrecord #strength #muscles #workout ]
Well... I think that being able to do 13 catches of 9b with less muscle than most isn't really saying that you're better off without muscle, given that it doesn't even put you in the top 10, it's about 4% of the record. Think about it. All the base pattern world records from 6-9 clubs, 7-13 balls, and 7-13 rings have been done by at least fairly muscular people. Is this coincidence? I don't think so.
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