Juggling convention raffles:
Can we all just agree we are happy to pay £1 extra on the door so that no one ever has to sit through a juggling convention raffle ever again.
Surely no one has ever won anything they actually wanted and the price of the day ticket is usually irrelevant compared to the cost of getting to the actual convention itself.
James...
...whose previous raffle wins include: cheap plastic diablo with crappy wooden handsticks, mid length staff occasionally used still to hang my washing from, floppy pink and purple hat.
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Ha. It's simply not a thing at conventions outside of the UK, from what I've found. I don't remember the last convention raffle I've sat through, and I don't miss it at all!
Little Paul - - Parent #
My only fond memories of juggling convention raffles, was the chocfest cruit set
I wonder what happened to it
Hahahaha! By all means have a raffle, just don't make people feel they have an obligation to enter & don't hold the draw during the show. Raffle draws are a huge bore for a lot of people. Perhaps combine the draw with the juggling games, make the winner of each game draw a ticket.
It's been a long time since I bought a raffle ticket. As an extra source of income I really like the BYJOTY drop count sweepstake which I will always enter. This may be a bit too cynical for a gala show, but I think it works for BYJOTY because as well as providing a nice prize fund incentive the result also works as a basic metric for how well the current crop of performers is doing.
lukeburrage - - Parent #
The original idea for the drop count sweepstake was to raise money for the best trick prize. Half to the winner of the best trick, half to the winner of the sweepstake. It didn't originate as any income source for the convention.
Oh no, but for another convention it could be a source of income that I think would be far less disruptive than a raffle draw. However, for a gala show it could just feel wrong.
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
Camvention will not have a raffle next year. I've also noticed foreigners being rather baffled by raffles, and I can't really defend them.
Danny Colyer - - Parent #
I've won some great stuff at convention raffles. The time to do the draw is at the end of the games, though, when people who haven't entered can wander off and do something else. During the show after an over-long interval is very much *not* the time to do it.
As a convention-goer I despise raffles and I will not enter for fear of accidentally winning a prize, which would probably be a VHS tape about poi. Sometimes I drop some money in the jar anyway and just make sure I don't get a ticket.
I observe that we charged £8 on the door for a one-day convention with a show in 1998, which inflation-adjusted is now £12 or £13. Door prices have not been keeping up.
Oh yes & that's the very nature of raffles, prizes are won in descending order of quality so by design they just get worse!
Can I also give potential raffle organisers a hint: The joke where you start the announcement with, "It's a blue ticket…" when there's only one colour? That's been done.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Some people get really funny about raffles.
Whenever I've had to do a draw, I've gone with the "draw the numbers as quick as possible, people can collect the tat in their own time" but more than once I've had complaints from people who expect me to wait for them to amble up and collect their spinning plate before drawing the next number. Or worse, expecting to be able to draw the next ticket themselves *sigh*
People also got really shirty about me pulling out fistfuls of tickets and declaring them all losers. As if doing that makes any bloody difference.
The easiest way to avoid all this tedium and moaning is to not bother with a raffle. If you really must dispose of tat in exchange for extra convention funds, go for an auction and hold it during the interval.
I agree that it makes no difference, but why would you draw and declare a bunch of tickets losers? I get the badassery component of it, but I feel like in many situations it would bring the vibe down instead of up. (I like your idea actually, I promote it) but people suck and that's why it might not work.
The nature of raffles is that there is a perverse incentive for the donors of prizes to unload things that nobody would pay good money for, but that will still take up space in the van on the way back.
The nature of shows is that no matter how carefully one may plan the running order so as to achieve a desired effect in the minds of the audience, people will still want to stuff it all up by inserting a long boring raffle in the middle.
I did once attend a show that was followed by a powerpoint presentation. I don't recommend that either.
Now seems like an appropriate time to mention that in my time involved with running it, the Oxford Juggling Convention has never had a raffle (and never will.) If people want a novelty prize they're invited to participate in the 'who can bring me the best crustacean based lunch on the day' competition but in 2 years there have been no participants. This does probably give you better odds of winning something than you get when you participate in other conventions' raffles
On that note, 30th May this year will be the Oxford Crayfish Juggling Convention and I look forward to seeing many of you there.
Are you serious? I work at Red Lobster and would DEMOLISH that competition. What's my prize?
I'm completely serious and though the first year the mystery prize was unclaimed and would perhaps have been unappreciated, this year the prize will be better than ever before. I welcome your submission!
I would question the freshness of a crustacean based dish delivered from the US to Oxford.
I would question the freshness of the prize that has been unclaimed for a year or more.
Mike Moore - - Parent #
What kind of junky raffles are they running over there?
The Waterloo fest I just got back from usually runs a raffle. I've won a standard kendama, a set of PX3 clubs, a couple sets of decent beanbags, and surely things I've forgotten now...in 7 years of raffles there, I've only lost value once. Most years the grand prize is a unicycle (thanks, Bedford Unicycles!).
At others fests, I've won Gballz and Drop Props (another nice kind of juggling bag, made in Rochester). I use both of those sets of balls to this day. Those two were Chinese auctions (don't be fooled by the name, it's really a raffle).
I certainly agree that winners shouldn't be announced anywhere that everyone is required to be.
I have an autographed Luftgarden DVD by Michael Karas... Great raffle win! The only juggling raffle I've ever been in. So boo you!
MKJC has a raffle. Last year without the raffle we wouldn't have broken even. The prizes are either donated by the committee or the traders. None of the committee have ever donated rubbish. Also the raffle is timetabled into the running order and for the last 3 years the show has finished pretty much on time (the year before had Steve Rawlings as the final act, he was asked to do 15 minutes and did 50+, not many complained).
It is easy to say just add a pound to the ticket price. For individuals that isn't a problem. For families where the cost gets multiplied it can be more of a problem. MKJC has always tried to be understanding about families and e.g. not charge for under 12s but the costs still mount and plenty of people choose not to buy a raffle ticket.
Nigel
jamesfrancis - - Parent #
I still think juggling conventions are under priced and price isn't a real differentiator in whether people attend or otherwise. For me, getting to any convention costs about a tenner and I usually spend another tenner at least on food, drink or whatever. An extra pound on the gates is minimal in comparison. I agree for families costs mount and child / family discounts where possible should be encouraged and maybe my financial position isn't really reflective of the juggling community, but...
...I just really really hate raffles!
When a 20 minute interval spreads to half an hour followed by a 20 minute calamitous raffle interspersed with unclaimed tickets and people winning free entrance to conventions that they definitely won't go it really just kills the mood for the rest of the show. Coupled with this when you have a 3 hour drive home and people have last trains to catch the absence of a raffle might actually enhance the popularity of a convention and make people more likely to attend in the first place, no?
Rant over
Apologies
Richard Loxley - - Parent #
In the four years I was involved with running BoB, we had two raffles, and then two tombolas.
I introduced the idea of a tombola as we still needed the income, but raffles kill the show vibe (and people who come just for the day mess things up).
It was an great success (in my opinion). The tombolas made twice as much money as the raffles had (I think because if people don't win the first time, they are more inclined to buy another ticket, which can't really happen with the raffle). And loads of people gave me positive feedback about how much they enjoyed it.
So I'd suggest to convention organisers, if you need to raise funds through prizes, try a tombola instead of a raffle. You may well find that you make more money, and the participants have more fun :-)
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
So, as a long time convention organiser this got me thinking - do we really need to get rid of the raffle at Lestival? So many negative opinions and low-level gripes and grumbles - it was almost as if a thread complaining about something someone didn't much care for, brought all the other nay-sayers crawling out of the woodwork!
And then I remembered how little I care for public games and parades, and all the times I've castigated those stupid enough to indulge themselves in them, and all the well-rounded and agreeably reasoned arguments I've made against them, sometimes in the teeth of considerable opp ..... no, wait a minute, that never happened, I have never lobbied against those things. Moaned about them, for sure, but who on earth would argue against people enjoying things just because I don't?[1] I just don't partake of that which does not appeal to me - simple.
So, because of the appalling way that raffles can drag, the Lestival draw has always been conducted on the principal of 'breakneck speed isn't fast enough!' and we try to rush insanely fast, because we know that lots of people like prizes, but far fewer enjoy the process of distributing them.
The alternative would be to add £1 to the ticket price. Whilst we're at it, could we add another £1 to take away the parade? And another £1 to remove the games? I suck at numbers juggling so perhaps that should be £2 if the games we cancel would've had a lot of numbers endurance rounds. Then lets cheerfully pay up another £1 to get rid of all the poimanglers - I'd do this for free, but one has to be consistent, of course. And another £1 to get rid of endless rounds of gladiators. And one more £1 to lose those stupid fucking jokey convention passes that no-one[2] likes.
And do you know what we would have with the stripped down format and the doubled ticket price? The London Convention, that's what.[3]
And that's why this was an initially attractive but ultimately flawed idea - if you really want to get rid of raffles then do it by addition not subtraction, find something much better to supplant raffles such that the people who do like them have something even better in their place. If that's too much effort then just avoid the bloody raffle, heckle the insane length of some of them, and in the meantime cheerfully indulge other people's enjoyment.
And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.
PS I have won raffle prizes that I really, really wanted, the biggest thing being the set of three juggling rubber chickens - I really put somebody out because I refused, there and then, to swap them for something else much nicer or even take money for them. So I applaud the quality of your rant, James, but I dispute the sentiments.
[1] Well, apart from all of bonkers fundamentalist Christianity whining about gay marriage as if they owned marriage in the first place, and were being forced to be gay, marry a gay, and be gay married. And probably a bajillion other examples as well.
[2] Turns out some people do like convention passes. This kind of argument occurs all the time and it's some sort of an appeal to a majority which is passed off as an appeal to all. So when you say "Can we all agree ..." the answer, from some at least, will surely be no.
[3] I kid, I kid. It was just a cheap joke ... much like the London Convention![3]
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
The difference is if the raffle is during the show, then there is not the same option to just not watch it (assuming you wish to see the show) - the games can be indulged in by everyone who wants to watch/partake and ignored by everyone else. I doubt people would be complaining if it was done during the day/after the show when anyone who wasn't interested could leave.
I always appreciate raffles that actually go fast, although quite a few claim that they will and are anything but.
I did actually enjoy the raffle at Chocfest this year, mainly due to Tiff being a bit mad during it and making it entertaining. It's certainly possible if the effort is put into it - but I feel sometimes it is put in because it's expected.
The "even better" thing could be a lawn, big enough for all us grumbly types to go sit on it with our tea/beer and shout for people who like raffles to vacate our small but verdant premises.
Little Paul - - Parent #
I thought that was what the bar was for
Mike Moore - - Parent #
> And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.
Classy.
hmmf, it's considered common courtesy among those I know to give people a heads up when sending them video content that might be NSFW or not to be watched during dinner or could be upsetting or whatever.
This is perhaps a cultural difference and it doesn't really surprise me that Reddit is on the other side of it.
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I'm not sure what you're talking about, I only input text, no links or videos. This is what I see (https://imgur.com/n1vqdLt), is something different from your end?
I was replying to Jay's text that you quoted, but got confused and thought you wrote it.
jamesfrancis - - Parent #
Well lets be clear, my general grumpiness doesn't just end at raffles. Like you Jay, I also don't like the public games or parades but these are easily avoidable whereas a mid show raffle isn't.
I appreciate what you and others have said though. Some convention raffles aren't so painful and supplementation is a good alternative. As long as some people get some joy out of raffles somewhere, somehow, then I'm sure I can tolerate them quietly in future (not sure cheerful indulgence might be the term I would apply here - but certainly not open disdain).
P.s. Whilst I do dislike raffles I do like the little passes.
Subscribe to this forum via RSS
1 article per branch
1 article per post