If it's a bit quiet today that may be because everyone is at BBU 2013, Kinetic Fire 2013, Forchheim Juggling Convention, 3rd Annual Sturtevant Camp Juggling Festival, Bibasse, Schokon 3, ŻeLKa, 27e Nederlandse Acrobatiekfestival or Fiesta dei Folli.
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Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
Well, I guess this belongs here and not in meta.
I have come to the conclusion that, for me at least, timers are a bloody nuisance that stifle creativity and more importantly spontaneity. Death to the timers.
There are a couple of things that prompted this post : 1. I wanted to reply to LP's BT post about chat rooms, but no, I have to set a timer, safe in the knowledge that by the time it trips I will have forgotten half what I want to say and lost half my motivation. 2. I'd already set a BT new thread timer the other day, on spec, on the off chance that I might want to post to BT. Consequently, because of reason 1 the timer has prevented me from doing something desirable, and reason 2 shows that it doesn't really impede me doing something at the drop of a hat. I therefore conclude that the timers aren't fit for purpose.
I realise that other people are different, but for myself (non-flippant) writing is bloody hard enough in the first place, and I spend an inordinate amount of time editing and sub-editing when I have an idea I want to make solid and to communicate clearly and succinctly. That act of writing and re-writing is fundamental to the process of coalescing my thoughts into a coherent argument, and therefore writing when the idea first arrives is a key part of the process. Timers in no way assist that, but they do impede it.
So, why not begin composing replies in Notepad or some such, and copypasta when the timer trips? Well yeah, but does that not demonstrate that the timer only impedes the process of posting and does not add anything creatively? The timer doesn't prevent me composing, it just prevents posting. And anyway point 2 above shows that, with a little foresight, it doesn't prevent posting either.
As a compromise I would strongly urge the implementation of a reply composition page with a delay on posting. Delaying composition stifles thought; merely delaying posting does not. But I still think it would be a half-arsed compromise.
The key thing here is that timers were implemented to put the kibosh on an anticipated problem. But it's silly in a place like the Edge, which is full of thoughtful, articulate, reflective people, to speculatively block possible unwanted behaviour before it even happens. That's like the leg jerking before the hammer has struck the knee. This is not 4chan - what I think is really needed is a retrospective way of tidying up, by deleting threads or moving them to ST, or flagging them somehow, or allowing authors the right to edit, archive, or delete them.
I'm off to set some more timers. Yes, I know that's not how it's meant to be, but at the moment I have two choices - broken BT or slightly broken BT. I'll go with the latter for the time being.
# by Cedric Lackpot, 2012-04-27 16:32 BST
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
I am also frustrated with the Big Talk timers and feel they stifle conversation (and slow it down to a crashing halt) so I have some suggestions:
Some other things that might be nice:
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
While Jay has put his ideas across somewhat forcefully, I think I may well agree with some of his points.
I'm 100% behind the idea of a thoughtful, strictly on-topic section of The Edge. I like the notion of encouraging much longer "essay" style posts, and I believe this is the intention for Big Talk. It's still early days for The Edge of course, and ST is working out lovely, but I think a few tweaks and a possible minor refocusing of BT could get it the same amount of love.
What do I think BT could become?
I'm currently looking on BT as a blog, which any member can post to. ST is more like a fast messageboard or a slow chatroom (depending how you look at it) but many of the long format posts on BT so far wouldn't look out of place on a blog such as the IJA eZine.
I think if it's viewed like this, the format has potential. (I'm trying so hard not to talk about crowdsourced content!) However, I'd like to see a couple of tweaks...
Main post timers
Like Jay, if I come up with an idea I need to either make a start on writing it down immediately, or risk forgetting most of it and never getting it all down. Ultimately this might led to me not posting something, not because it wasn't important, thoughtful or witty - but because it was ephemeral and 24 hours is a long time for a thought to stay in my brain!
However, I do see a lot of value in encouraging people to read/edit/rewrite what they've written before posting it, and to encourage a period of reflection.
So I'd really like to see the ability to start composing a post immediately, while the timer ticks away. Perhaps then with an enforced "preview at least once after the timer has expired before posting" to encourage people to read what they've written at least once.
Why the "write it in notepad" approach doesn't work for me
That one is straight forward at least. Surprisingly often I'll use 2 laptops and 2 desktops in a day. That's 4 machines (and 3 operating systems) in a 24 hour period, assuming I don't pick up my tablet or hop on a mates computer. If I start a timer, and make some notes in notepad or something, I have to transfer those notes from machine to machine until my timer has expired. Clumsy and lame!
Sure I could email them, use google docs (although I'd rather claw my eyes out) or one of these cross platform cloud based note services... but why do I have to take that workflow out of the edge? If I can compose right away, it's all in the edge - no matter how many computers I use, or what they are.
Replies
Timers on replies. I'm in two minds about this. I either want *much* shorter reply timers (30 minutes? an hour?) as discussion should be encouraged and not stifled. Again, being able to compose immediately and review later before posting might encourage longer more thoughtful replies.
However, any timer at all prevents quick corrections. As an example, Orinocos reply to my chatroom post contains errors which I'd like to be able to point out immediately (eg pointing people towards #juggling rather than ##juggling) and a 24 hour timer really gets in the way of that!
So perhaps I'd like replies to be ST style?
At the very least, a way for anyone to hang an ST thread off the bottom of a BT post (perhaps via the tagging system, so they appear in a manner similar to threads related to juggling clubs or events appear on the respective pages?) would be helpful.
I have a feeling we had that at one point, but I may be misremembering.
Useful discussion being lost elsewhere
There has been very little BT activity on this post, although there are a reasonably large number of replies in progress. However, there is more immediate discussion about it happening over on meta. I'm holding off on talking about it on meta because it seems fitting to experience the frustrations reffered to while composing!
Variable length timers?
I think it was Dee that suggested perhaps that the more you post on BT the shorter your timers should be. I have mixed feelings about this. Quantity of material posted is not always a good proxy for quality of contribution.
However, The Edge does track/score interactions between users (although this functionality isn't really used at the moment) but with a bit of thought/work this could be used to derive a score based on how functional a member of edge society you are. Timer length could be related to this (although I strongly feel that if the timers stick around but become variable length, no one should *ever* get a zero length timer for a new BT thread)
In any case, it would need extremely careful handling to stop it becoming self perpetuating or elitist/exclusive/cliquey.
Timer length in general
24 hours is a very long time. Once or twice I've been surprised that a timer I set "ages ago" is still in progress - and that's because if (for example) I set it in the morning, go to work, come home, go out for the evening, come home... the timer can still have 8-10 hours left to run!
tl;dr
In summary, the intention behind the current timer implementation is sound and I 100% agree with the intentions. However there is room for improvement, and there appears to be a lot of crossover in opinion as to what that might look like.
"compose immediately, post when timer expires" would seem to be the most common suggestion.
Irony
I'm suddenly very aware that had some of the changes I suggest above (specifically ST style replies) this reply post wouldn't be anywhere near as comprehensive as it is.
# by Little Paul, 2012-04-28 23:00 BST Parent
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
This is not 4chan - what I think is really needed is a retrospective way of tidying up, by deleting threads or moving them to ST, or flagging them somehow, or allowing authors the right to edit, archive, or delete them.
One of the most poisonous words you can utter with respect to forums is "moderation". rec.juggling afficionados are extremely fond of its lack of moderation which is regarded as being much, much more important than filtering out tiresome spam and trolling. Put simply, I personally will not bother with your forums until you implement a space which is unmoderated. Spam and other antisocial content is a very small price to pay for freedom of speech. If I want moderated forums I can use the Anthony Gatto forums, WTForums, and numerous other places. I don't want moderation. I will not bother with moderated forums.
ahem :)
But it's silly in a place like the Edge, which is full of thoughtful, articulate, reflective people, to speculatively block possible unwanted behaviour before it even happens.
I've been thinking about this quote for 2 days. I still can't work out why stopping problems before they occur is a bad thing! The limited high quality userbase we have here is largely down to the restrictive invitation system. A lot of people think that is silly too!
This conversation has continued over Small Talk, Big Talk, Meta Talk, ##juggling & rec.juggling. One good thing about winding everyone up is that it shows there is a demand for a serious discussion area. People want to post to Big Talk. Why? Even though I quite clearly haven't succeeded on this first attempt, I think I have demonstrated that people want a place to discuss big ideas, where posts have a degree of prestige attached to them. No other juggling forum has achieved this as far as I am aware.
Just providing a renamed version of Small Talk (which is all Big Talk is once you strip out the timers) & hoping that it will generate in depth well thought out posts is naive at best. There must be a barrier to entry & some mechanism that encourages you stop & think.
Taking the average preferred solution from everyone's posts on the subject I have now changed the system so that you can create a reply instantly, but you can't submit your post until one hour after it has first been saved.
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
The problem with having to wait a day was that I couldn't be bothered to do it. Therefore there was little likelihood that I would post anything in Big talk. Given there is already a large group of lurkers who rarely if ever post in small talk, it seems that the only people likely to post in Big Talk are those who are very confident that their opinions should be heard and who also have the time and inclination to do so. This would be a very exclusive group. In fact probably the same small group who were already on here when I joined.
By decreasing the time wait you increase the number of people who will contribute (well you add me and that is an increase). Is this a good thing? I guess that has more to do with what you are trying to gain from concept of Big Talk. Those who have already contributed tend to be the ones who already contribute elsewhere to the online juggling community. They are in general well informed, deep thinking and positive in their attitudes towards promoting juggling and online juggling. Making it easier to post on Big talk will possibly increase the likelihood for variant views. Is Big talk the place for strong disagreement?
As an aside why isn't it BIG TALK and small talk?
Nigel
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
Splendid.
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
Orinoco said:
> Taking the average preferred solution from everyone's posts on the
> subject I have now changed the system so that you can create a
> reply instantly, but you can't submit your post until one hour after it
> has first been saved.
This seems like a great compromise. It gives people the chance to provide their feedback without the requirement for a whole day of considering whether your opinion is valid. It also seems that it will have the desired effect of reducing the spam/flame-replies/etc, as it still requires multiple posting decisions.
Cheers,
Dave
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-04-30 15:12 BST Parent
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
I've only posted to Big Talk a couple of times and the first time I definitely forgot the detail of what I was intending to say because of the 24hr wait. But I am in favour of not being able to post immediately so wouldn't want an instant post system like Small Talk.
The changes you've made seem to me a good solution.
Re: Big talk timers - they don't do the job intended, get rid of them
<A self-imposed timer trips>
First off, removing the delay on replying is very likely an excellent compromise. So the rest of this post is therefore of diminished relevance :)
I think you made an excellent reply Orin, but you missed the point ... twice! Not by much, but let me explain :-
Firstly you quoted an excellent post from somewhere or other regarding moderation. I'm not advocating that kind of moderation, where the end-user is denied the right even to know what is being withheld from him or her - that sort of thing is indeed odious and unwanted. But retrospective editing of BT in the name of maintaining quality need not be a process of withholding, which is why I tried to suggest possible methods that involved the agreement of the author or which moved posts or threads. They're just suggestions of course, but I tried to choose ideas that might leave a trail to the original post.
Secondly you said "I still can't work out why stopping problems before they occur is a bad thing!" Obviously it isn't, but stopping non-problems is. The timers are indiscriminate in what they catch, which is what prompted my post title, that timers don't work properly.
I think the idea of loftier debate is excellent, and I'd like to find a way of implementing it effectively. I don't believe the original method of timers facilitated this. We'll see how the new method works out and hopefully it will fit the bill and kill this argument into the bargain.
# by Cedric Lackpot, 2012-05-01 10:46 BST Parent
Thanks to Norbi those with a fruity touchy pooter should hopefully now have a funky icon.
http://www.jugglingedge.com/apple-touch-icon.png
Norbi supplied the icon, there is no code, you just need to upload an image with the apple-touch-icon.png filename to the root directory & iOS does the rest.
Yay!
*makes full use of new feature*
# by Little Paul, 2012-11-14 17:29 GMT Parent
Easy, good looking, access to jtv and the edge - check!
Diabolo.ca already had one, so now I'm just missing the hub.
Is it just me that thought you meant something completely different by "fruity touchy pooter"?
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-11-16 01:26 GMT Parent
What else could it mean? I insist that you draw a picture & show us.
I don't think I can draw a picture, but I could show you on this doll.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-11-19 01:11 GMT Parent
Where did you get an upset gay entomologist doll from?
# by Little Paul, 2012-11-19 11:26 GMT Parent
Surprisingly, even with "safe search" turned off, "upset gay entomologist doll" returns a very different set of search results on GoogleImages than I was expecting.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-11-20 05:17 GMT Parent
Attention LP
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/258
thought you might find some amusement/enjoyment out of that
*WARNING* not juggling related
oh that's *nice*
The idea of building a similar beast (or at least an adding machine made from ring counters using a dial to load the registers) wandered across my brain a couple of weeks back, although I hadn't thought of using 555s (Although it's not a bad idea now I think about it)
I'm not sure if seeing it done has pushed it further up my to-do list or moved it further down. Either way I do have a gap on my workbench at the moment having finished my latest project late last night.
# by Little Paul, 2012-08-23 09:18 BST Parent
On a side note - what ever happened to your rotary-dial siteswap validator? Still floating around, or abandoned in a garage somewhere?
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-08-23 14:52 BST Parent
I built the hardware, I wrote the code to read the dial impulses/validate siteswaps on one computer, wrote the code to playback audio samples using an arduino and a handful of resistors[1] on another computer... then having solved all the interesting bits I lost interest and never tied all the code together.
I've still got the hardware in a box somewhere, and have the code in an SVN repo somewhere... but no, it's not finished.
I did also start writing an asterisk macro which would validate siteswaps, but again I lost interest before completing it. I might be more likely to pick that one back up though.
[1] 4bit 6khz (I think) uncompressed samples, played through an R2R DAC - I was quite pleased with that (partly because Tarim thought it couldn't be done ;-) and it *just* about allowed me to fit samples of the digits 0-9 and the words "yes" and "no" in the arduino without using any external storage - It was terribly low-fi but still recognisable.
I did start looking at ways to compress the samples which would have allowed me to use better quality audio and unpack it on the arduino on the fly - but never really got anything working.
# by Little Paul, 2012-08-23 19:34 BST Parent
That is sweet :-) I like!
# by Richard Loxley, 2012-08-23 13:14 BST Parent
https://xkcd.com/1095/
I'm sure a lot of you have seen it, but for those that haven't, I just thought I'd share a recent xkcd comic that seemed to apply to the juggling community.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-08-18 15:23 BST
I totally don't get it. Can someone explain it to me please? I can't see anything juggling related in that comic.
# by Rob van Heijst, 2012-08-18 22:21 BST Parent
The joke in the comic is that people who have a strong interest in any topic, tend to form little opinion-based groups within the topic, having discussions and arguments relating to their part of the group. Then, people within each group will have their own sub-groups, and so on.
That made me think of the juggling community, and (as an example):
Juggling as a Sport vs an Art?
Sport juggling for numbers vs tricks?
Numbers juggling for solo vs passing?
Solo numbers juggling for balls vs clubs vs rings?
Numbers ball juggling with beanbags vs stage balls?
Beanbags for numbers juggling should be underfilled vs full-filled?
Underfilled numbers juggling beanbags at 60g vs 90g?
Fill 60g underfilled beanbags with millet vs plastic pellets?
etc...
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-08-19 14:32 BST Parent
Just outside our new hall is an old red phonebox, these are marginally too small to juggle clubs inside.
I had a very brief handstand session but quickly gave up, at the weekend I was bitten by insects against which I've had a spectacular allergic reaction & the right side of my neck is covered with some very nasty purple spots which felt they were going to pop as the blood pressure increased. Delightful.
#TWJC
Surely you can get a Rockets ("vertical flats") pattern going in there?
And yeuch!
If it's a K6 kiosk (small rectangular windows) or a K9 kiosk (huge rectangular windows) then you can probably get a single person vertical flats pattern going...
However, if you're lucky and it's one of the much rarer K2 kiosk (small square windows) they're slightly larger so you can probably get 2 people in there passing 5 club ultimates on vertical flats.
</phonebox geek>
# by Little Paul, 2012-08-10 09:51 BST Parent
From your description it is a K6 I would think. It didn't occur to me to try vert flats, I will give it a go next week.
I'm having flashbacks to filming LP doing hat manipulation in a phone box many many years ago!
I seem to remember that most tricks were possible, although he had to prop the door open to do any leg kicks.
I also remember being surprised that we had to pause every so often because people actually wanted to use the box to make phone calls! I though everyone had got mobiles by that point.
If I could be bothered I'd upload some clips. But I'm not even sure where the original footage is any more.
But I can always plug the edited (commercial) version ;-) Tricks With Hats the video available to buy at http://greenvideo.co.uk/hats/
I wouldn't buy it just for the phone box footage mind you, blink and you'll miss it!
# by Richard Loxley, 2012-08-11 13:24 BST Parent
I've just noticed a typo. I meant K8 not K9.
K9 was of course a tin dog.
# by Little Paul, 2012-08-12 08:54 BST Parent
Oh, and talking about phonegeek things - there's a magazine in Australia that does a special every months on people's obscure collections. The recent one was about a guy that collected antique phones. If that's something you're interested in reading, I've got a scan of it that I can email to you.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-08-15 06:30 BST Parent
Yes please! Australia mostly got its phone system from same suppliers as the UK so there's a lot of crossover.
# by Little Paul, 2012-08-15 10:32 BST Parent
for the IT crowd on here:
Are you on LinkedIn ?
( I have been advised to get on there and "network" to help with my job search )
I'm not on linkedin, but if I was seriously looking for work I probably would be as it functions quite effectively as a CV advertising service and does seem to generate contact from recruiters (at least, that's what my friends who use it tell me)
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-04 08:11 BST Parent
It's more of a proxy vote for it as a useful-evil than a ringing endorsement though
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-04 15:40 BST Parent
I had limited success with it in the past. Though that wasn't for IT related stuff, so I can't comment on that. I'm on there at: http://au.linkedin.com/in/dcheetham and you might find a few other jugglers through my connections.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-04 15:17 BST Parent
Yes, I am on LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/colin-eberhardt/a/4b4/146
It is a pretty useful networking tool and might help you get a job. Personally I use it to make new contacts and discover more about the make up of other organisations.
Although, I must say that when interviewing I don't really treat LinkedIn any differently to a regular CV. It doesn't give much depth. I am always much more interested in whether people use Twitter, write blogs, have interesting opinions and are willing to share them.
Showing enthusiam goes a long way when finding a job.
From a recruiting pov I think linkedin sits before the shortlist/interview stage - by that point I'm not looking at linkedin is functionally equivalent to a CV.
There do seem to be a lot of recruitment agencies using it to look for potential candidates to put forward to their clients though, so from that point of view it makes you easier to find and may get your toe in a few more doors.
My Top Tip for being recruited is always to have some experience of doing the shortlisting or interviewing from the other side of the desk. You learn an awful lot about what makes an effective CV by reading a pile of them or what makes for good answers in an interview by listening to how other people interview - and yes, enthusiasm goes a long way!
So if you ever get a chance to be on a panel, grab it with both hands (but put down anything you're carrying first)
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-05 12:11 BST Parent
just pretend that when I reworded that first paragraph, I reworded it to something that made some kind of sense.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-05 12:12 BST Parent
I'm not on LinkedIn either but I've got all but 1 of the jobs I've ever had in a linked in way - through friends & ex-colleagues. The one job I had that I didn't get in this way was a stint in the Jobcentre (UK social security office to help the unemployed find work) where I learnt many ways to not get a job. A couple of my personal favourites from CVs that I saw:
"I hold a full clean diving license."
"I have the ability to remain clam."
At #Altern8 on Monday, I misheard something that Richard said (though neither of us could afterwards work out what was actually said), which made me imagine a new product:
"Rubik's shoes", anyone?
Is it time for the obligatory xkcd reference?
http://xkcd.com/457/
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-04 01:26 BST Parent
Maybe it was an anti-littering message - "Rubbish. Whose?"
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-04 07:47 BST Parent
He was almost certainly talking about inexperienced marsupials.
"Noobish Roos"
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-04 08:12 BST Parent
Are you sure he wasn't talking about the colours in the photos of said marsupials - the "Roo pix hues".
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-04 08:44 BST Parent
*groan*
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-04 10:42 BST Parent
All good... but none of you have addressed the idea of what the concept behind "Rubik's Shoes" might be.....
Come on, we could be onto a fortune here....
Platform type shoes with Rubik's cubes as the heels/soles ?
Shoes patterned with brightly coloured squares that move around ?
Boring lace ups as worn by Hungarian Professors ?
It's exactly 20 years ago today that I learned to juggle. (Thanks, Dave!) Right, pass the walking stick (for me to balance on my chin, obviously....)!
I've got 2 years until that milestone, blimey where has the time gone?
Quite a lot of it went into 5 balls, and a lot more into 5 clubs..... etc
It must be almost exactly 20 years for me too, although I don't know the exact date.
"me too" - although I might have missed my 20th anniversary as I think I learned 3 balls before 1992.
I really wish I'd made a note of the date.
I know I bought my first juggling balls from Freaks Unlimited when they were in their shop on Perry Road - and issue 1 of the Catch says they were there in 92 but I don't know how long they'd been there for. Hmm.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-04 10:49 BST Parent
Can you remember what was playing in the Hit Parade at the time? Anything in the news that might have made wikipedia?
For those that can remember the date if you click on Me > Edit Profile I've just added an optional field where you can record when you started juggling. Ooh... I've just remembered an idea I had.
Any way you can set it not to require an exact date? I'm guessing there's a lot of people like me who might only remember the year or month, rather than the day.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-05 02:49 BST Parent
this - it needs an "ish" field.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-05 10:06 BST Parent
I remember the half decade, not even the exact year... different degrees of -ish, maybe?
I've just had a similar request for the established date for clubs today.
I've set started juggling up as a separate field so that I can capture machine readable data which I could perhaps use for an anniversary notification or plot the most likely days to start juggling.
Degrees of ish looks the way to go, not quite sure how to do it at present, getting a computer to understand 'ish' is pretty tricky.
In the meantime just look at that nice inviting blurb field!
I know what you mean about "ish" - I spent ages trying to work out a nice way to build an "approximate clock" which would tell me it's "nearly 4pm" or "just gone quarter past 6" in such a way that you couldn't infer the accurate time.
The closest I got involved using randomness to fudge the crossoverpoint between "almost" "about" and "just gone" but never got a solution which gave results I was happy with - so I lost interest and went off to do something else.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-05 18:59 BST Parent
Was it you who also did a clock that told the time according to the KLF?
heh! yes.
There's an archive copy of the MkII KLF clock here: http://tinyurl.com/ckqog8k
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-05 22:06 BST Parent
I'm tempted to put in a new timezone...
Not sure where moo moo time fits in though.
What does the computer have to understand exactly ? Are you going to be doing any comparisons or calculations on the dates ?
If it is really just informational/display, let it just be text so people can type as specific or as abstract a date as they like, that should make it easy to convert existing date data to strings.
I can't remember the specific day after 8 years, I would enter "late April 2004"
To put in the features mentioned above I'd need the exact date. Although, there will probably be interesting info gleaned from partial dates for how many people started juggling in a given year or month.
When you select a date using the drop-down calender in that field, it gives it in the wrong format.
What browser are you using & what format is it outputting? It is just an HTML5 date control, which for browsers that support it should only return yyyy-mm-dd. For all other browsers they will just get a text field.
A few years ago a friend of mine sheepishly posted a video on an old TWJC forum of the 2009 US Pole Dancing Federation Championships. I remember thinking that the performers were all better than Chinese Pole acts that I'd seen in the Moscow & Chinese State Circus & Cirque Du Soleil.
I've just spent much of the evening watching pole dancing videos trying to find it again (not as wrong as it sounds I promise). I found it again & I was right. I was particularly impressed by Sarah Cretul who won the Miss Trixter award for her flashy acrobatic moves. What I didn't remember was that a lot of the shots were 'less than respectful' which is a huge shame because the strength & ability of the dancers is really amazing.
But then I found this featuring Anastasia Shukhtorova which I do feel comfortable posting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC7vjVc8Rk
It's not quite as spectacular but something I could see fitting into a public show.
you mentioned this in ##juggling last night, and it got me thinking.
I've seen cheerleader routines which were higher skill and more entertaining to watch than some acro acts I've seen on festival stages over the years - but what *other* non-traditional skills are out there which would sit well on a festival stage?
Also - the olympics are coming up, and while I'll be doing my best to ignore the majority of the whole gaudy affair - I will be making a point of watching most of the gymnastics. Some of the floor routines are very "juggly" and the equipment based stuff (eg asymetric bars, rings) ticks a lot of the same boxes for me that acro or trapeze do.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-02 12:34 BST Parent
Sydney Juggling Convention 2011 featured a pretty amazing three-person acro skipping routine in the public show. It's not quite as non-traditional as pole dancing, but it was a good break from five-ball pirouettes.
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-07-02 14:37 BST Parent
I'd like to see Danny McAskill live. I nearly did once at a motorbike event, but he went and broke his collarbone. There would be some challenges in getting this on a stage... but I'm sure it could be done!
I also absolutely love some of the object manipulation routines that can be seen in Jackie Chan films, for example there is a lovely sequence involving a step ladder, I think it's in First Strike. Straight-up slapstick.
Ooh and I saw a lovely video once of a guy dancing with crutches. That would go down well on stage.
JACKIE CHAN!!!
He Chinese. /Senmaru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JYNznbL0Q
Why do you say non-traditional? I think both pole dancers & cheerleaders have taken traditional skills, have used & developed them in a different entertainment setting & just do them a lot better & in a more interesting way.
I mean in the sense of "in the tradition of juggling festival shows" rather than in the sense of wider circus.
# by Little Paul, 2012-07-02 21:43 BST Parent
The Chinese Imperial Circus did a show in 2001 which included a guy in a suit with a microphone announcing in heavily accented English various things like 'helicopter', 'train', 'tweeting birds' & then doing the sound effects. It seemed so out of place but I thought it was one of the best acts of the show.
Last night was our last night at the Camden Centre in Tunbridge Wells. I was getting a little worried because despite selling things in dribs & drabs over the past few weeks we still had an enormous amount of kit left over. But thankfully ambassadors from from Crawley, Falmer & Chatham paid us a visit to give pretty much all our kit a loving new home (still got a few bits left some of which will be coming to #BBU13). Others were worried for a different reason & I had a number of people ask me, "we're not selling the coffin are we?", "we're still keeping the coffin right?"
As well as visitors looking for kit we had a good turnout for the party including many familiar faces from years ago who it was nice to catch up & reminisce with. Peter Bone sadly demonstrated to the kids that Simon & I aren't actually that good. There was a wonderfully gooey chocolate fudge cake courtesy of Karina. Although I only had 3 slices I can confirm that it would have been worth the drive from Bungay.
Nostalgia was rife throughout the evening with lots of laughter about memories from our years at the hall. Jo in particular enjoyed going through some of our scrapbooks, when she came across the first photo of me from ~15 years ago she said, "Wow, you used to be quite the looker, but now you've got this (waves at all of me) going on". We enjoyed returning to the alarming inaccuracies, mistakes & blatant falsehoods being peddled by local journalists. It was quite alarming the amount of wigs & painted faces that were about in the 90s but fortunately I am proud that the record shows that I always performed in a shirt & waistcoat.
From our archives here's a picture of a club night when we were near the height of our powers taken on the 8th of March 1993:
http://www.jugglingedge.com/userfiles/Orinoco/TWJC1993-03-08.jpg
#twjc
I had a great time. It's a shame you'll no longer have that hall as it was ideal and made me wish that I'd visited before. Hope you find a new venue soon.
Thanks for the walking globe. The #USCS members enjoyed playing with it last night.
Sorry I didn't thank you for your work on this site while I was there. I confess that I only just made that connection (you don't make it easy). Hopefully see you down at the #USCS sometime.
I know, it's hard to be a lurker & run a major website at the same time!
To be clear:
Orinoco = Jon from TWJC = Yeah that one
If you feel like being any clearer, would you care to point out which one you are in the photo above?
# by Dave Cheetham, 2012-06-04 06:55 BST Parent
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