Small Talk

Hi Jamie! Good to have you on board. If you fancy hanging out for some real-time chat, have a look at jugglelounge.com for information on how to get at the ##juggling irc channel on freenode.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-16 09:43 BST Parent

Oh, I had tried to import them but did not realize I had to use my user ID #. Yay! I am not a member of that club, but have juggled with some of the people from it at festivals. I primarily juggled in Pittsburgh when I was heavily active, as part of "The Campus Fools". My favorite muffin is probably red velvet, if those exist. I am glad there is a juggling chat as well.

# by Jamie, 2013-04-16 19:00 BST Parent

You don't have to, it's either/or. However, the IJDb members table was culled periodically so some users were removed but their records remained. You were one of the people who had their username removed so you only have the option to import using your user ID.

I'd not heard of red velvet before, but cream cheese & sour cream in a muffin? That does sound good.

# by Orinoco, 2013-04-16 19:29 BST Parent

I think that Americans might have a different interpretation of the word muffin to ours, which might account for different flavours.

# by ^Tom_, 2013-04-16 20:00 BST Parent

"Muffin" != "English Muffin" (which as far as I can tell isn't even a thing in England) but I think both sides of the pond would agree that muffins are small cakes, eg:

http://www.thecakecrew.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/muffin.jpg

Red Velvet muffins I assume would be based on "red velvet cake" mixture, which is an odd beast. There are many variations on the idea ranging from "chocolate cake with red food colouring added" which sounds a bit disappointing, to "chocolate and beetroot cake" which sounds more interesting.

I think it probably could work as a muffin mix, although being quite a dense cake you'd probably have to add an extra raising agent to get it to bloom like a muffin does.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-16 20:11 BST Parent

And that's the second time in a week I've been talking about muffin recipes with jugglers.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-16 20:12 BST Parent

So a cupcake and a muffin can be the same thing?

# by Sadie, 2013-04-17 00:13 BST Parent

No. Cupcakes have nasty icing on them and are often dry and taste of sawdust. Muffins cannot under any circumstances be iced, and they are on the damp side and taste strongly of something yummy.

# by emilyw, 2013-04-17 01:10 BST Parent

+100

# by Kelhoon, 2013-04-17 02:22 BST Parent

I thought cupcakes were mostly made as table decorations and shop window dressing...

# by emilyw, 2013-04-17 08:01 BST Parent

Not when I make them ;)

# by Lorri, 2013-04-17 09:44 BST Parent

I require scientific evidence before I will believe this. Obviously a large sample size will be needed to achieve experimental validity.

# by emilyw, 2013-04-17 09:46 BST Parent

Can the large sample size be spread across different juggling conventions?

# by Lorri, 2013-04-17 10:06 BST Parent

Do you need help with scientific endeavour? I could be available to help judge if they are not chocolatey.

# by Mïark, 2013-04-17 10:10 BST Parent

OK, I'll see what I can do. I'll start at Lestival...

# by Lorri, 2013-04-17 10:58 BST Parent

the things we do for the sake of science!

# by emilyw, 2013-04-17 14:21 BST Parent

Surely you mean the science of cake!

# by Orinoco, 2013-04-17 17:44 BST Parent

Lorri's "cupcakes" at Lestival were delicious, though I might have described them as "mini-muffins decorated with icing" if I had not been authoritatively informed that they were cupcakes. Early results should not necessarily be reason to end testing yet though.

There were also some peppermint flavoured cupcakes, decorated with blue icing and half-polos, sold at the Lestival café which tasted interesting.

#LestivalLeicester

# by Mïark, 2013-05-05 18:39 BST Parent

Indeed, provisional tests indicate that small sized carrot cupcakes can be very tasty and not at all too dry. Reducing the amount of icing from the more usual boat loads was definitely an improvement. Props to the lead researcher on this project!

Tomorrow's science experiment involves research into raising agents and baking duration in chocolate-ginger-chilli cake.

# by emilyw, 2013-05-05 20:14 BST Parent

Almost, but there is a distinction - muffins are fat loud disappointing fairycakes, cupcakes are ugly fairycakes wearing loads of slap in an attempt to disguise their uglieness.

In short, muffins are from birmingham and cupcakes are from essex.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-17 22:09 BST Parent

no its definately waffles that are from Birmingham

# by Monte, 2013-04-17 22:12 BST Parent

I think the term you are looking for is 'spiked'.

# by Orinoco, 2013-04-18 18:32 BST Parent

*adds Topper to the list of jugglers not to accept cake from*

It's quite an exclusive club, currently it's just Topper and miarke

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-18 18:48 BST Parent

What did Mïarke do to a cake?

# by Sadie, 2013-04-18 19:15 BST Parent

& when did he gain an 'e' on the end of his name?

# by Orinoco, 2013-04-18 19:19 BST Parent

I've seen him spell his name so many ways over the years, I lose track of how he's currently spelling it.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-18 19:47 BST Parent

I seem to remember some discussion about whether or not the surprise was the sprout, or the fact it wasn't cooked.

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-19 10:44 BST Parent

All I remember is the judges' comment "Tasted like Christmas"

# by Lorri, 2013-04-19 11:17 BST Parent

The sprouts were cooked, they had been gently steamed in the microwave till they were tender (it is very important not to overcook sprouts, overcooked sprouts are probably why so many people don't like sprouts). I don't know why there is so much prejudice against chocolat legumerie they were very nice (if I say so myself). I can share the recipe if anyone wants it. Much better than Helen's chocolate covered balls of haggis.

# by Mïark, 2013-04-19 15:32 BST Parent

yes please. the recipe would be good

# by ^Tom_, 2013-04-19 16:34 BST Parent

From memory:

Recipe for Belgian Surprises

ingredients:

Sprouts - fresh (not frozen) and preferably small, (smaller ones are sweeter)
Chocolate - good quality darker chocolate compliments the sprout flavour better than a sweet milky chocolate
cocoa powder
chocolate sprinkles (optional)

method:

With a sharp knife remove and stalks or tired leaves from the sprouts.

Briefly steam the sprouts (either in microwave or in a steamer) taking care not to overcook (as this will spoil the flavour and texture of the the sprouts and make them soggy and sulphurous).

Pat the sprouts dry with clean cloth or kitchen paper.

Melt the chocolate either on a low setting in microwave or in a bowl sitting in another bowl of very-hot (not boiling) water, do not let the chocolate get over 32 deg.

Once the chocolate has melted carefully dip the sprouts in the chocolate, allow to cool a little and redip to ensure a consistently thick coating of chocolate.

Before the chocolate coating totally cools, roll the (now ensconced in chocolate) sprouts in the cocoa powder or chocolate sprinkles to give pleasing finish and prevent them from sticking together in transit to the Cake contest.

Sorry for any details inadvertently missed out, but it is over five years since I last made any Belgian Surprises

# by Mïark, 2013-04-21 21:44 BST Parent

Yay! Joes here! :)

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-17 18:52 BST Parent

and now, having watched the video - part of it made me snort tea down my nose, but to say which bit would spoil the surprise :)

# by Little Paul, 2013-04-17 19:22 BST Parent

Boing! :-)
Nice one Joe.

# by The Void, 2013-04-20 12:56 BST Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

Attitudes are hard to change. Essentially it all boils down to encouraging people to do what they don't want to do. Volunteering for a festival is work. It is often argued that the work itself is good fun which is reason enough to do it. Which is true, but offering fun in exchange for work at a juggling festival is not much of an incentive. It is a juggling festival - fun is not exactly hard to come by. I can work & have fun or I can not work & have fun. Hmm, decisions.

Acknowledgement of volunteers is very important. Not wishing to name any names but a few years ago while fence monkeying I listened to one of my lot incessantly complaining, "It's my holiday, I'm not here to work, I've paid for my ticket...". In recent years though with badges on offer you can't stop that person volunteering now. For some a badge is a very cost effective form of payment. For me I prefer a human thank you. For festivals that ask you to go & report somewhere after volunteering to collect your badge I generally won't bother, but if someone (preferably a pretty young girl, but that's just my preference) comes & gives you a badge that's much more meaningful.

There are other incentives of course. I think it was at BJC 2008 that while clearing litter from the viewing gallery I collected £1.39 in loose change. It was a heavy evening at the bar that night I can tell you.

Also important is to not waste volunteers' time, in that respect BJC 2007 was very frustrating for me.

I'm hesitant to reference a marketing campaign but I think The Fun Theory provides many lessons. If you only watch one video from there watch this one, it's great.

How this applies to badge control I'm not sure. Some sort of Krypton factor esque puzzle where your pass needs to be used as some sort of key to pass through a turnstyle or perhaps passes with RFID tags in them that have to be thrown through a hoop 3 metres up in the air to open a gate to allow you to pass through. Emptying bins? If that means hurling trash bags over the fence at a moving refuse truck with a trebuchet then I am there.

Yeah, I'm not helping any more am I.

# by Orinoco, 2011-10-03 12:54 BST Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

Volunteering at juggling conventions can be divided into two broad categories

1.    Volunteering at short non-camping conventions
2.    Volunteering at large camping conventions

The requirements are quite different. I think that volunteering at short conventions should be largely organised in advance - a small rota for who is going to cover the reg/info desk, someone (or preferably two people) to run the games and then a team for the show. Most other roles can be quickly filled by a "shout out" as they tend to be short tasks.

Volunteering at large festivals is a bigger problem. It isn't so easy to schedule in advance, as I don't think that it's a good idea to have a very small bunch of people doing all of the volunteering - this leads to burn-out.  I'm going to be struggling with this dilemma in 2014 at the EJC in Millstreet, so have given it some thought already. One of the main issues I see is getting reliable volunteers without overworking them, especially for areas of responsibility.

Definitely one thing I've learned over the years is that a simple to use volunteer sign-up sheet should be ready to go before the convention. There will always be certain times when you have many volunteers, and at others no (or insufficient) willing volunteers. That is the nature of relying on volunteer labour. So you need to have a plan for what to do if you don't have enough people to do badge control - are there any non-essential points that can be shut down if no-one is there to cover them? (This was an issue in Munich this summer - lots of entrances into all of the camping areas). Each job should have a brief (but accurate) description about what's involved, so that people can make informed decisions.

However, sufficiently thanking people is really important. The reliable volunteers are not those motivated by collecting badges; but the bigger point of the volunteer badges was not expressly to thank people, but rather to highlight the need for volunteers and to make volunteering more visible. I've already stipulated that for EJC2014 that I need at least 3 others working with me as points of contact for volunteers. Volunteers need to be cared for, this is hard to do if only one person is responsible for co-ordinating volunteers. It's trying to achieve this on a limited budget that proves the big challenge.

Ideally, I'd like a sign up process that allows people to state any useful specialist skills (that they'd be willing to use during the convention), so that we use relevant skills. I'd also like people to be able to state their preferred times of the day for volunteering, or specific times during the conventions that they are not willing to volunteer during.

From the last EJC in Ireland (2006), there are some things that I learned. Getting volunteers is tricky. Getting volunteers to cover badge control at "unsocial" times is especially tricky. Badge control is boring at quiet times.
•    At very large conventions you need more than one person responsible for volunteers - I think that you need at least one person just responsible for badge control.
•    Checking on your volunteers regularly is important so that they can feel that easy to report issues without it feeling like a direct criticism.

Jugglers like "task orientated" volunteering - and it's much easier to get people to volunteer for this than for scheduled tasks. Going into the campsite or the juggling hall and looking for those who aren't actively juggling and asking nicely is a good way to go.

I've run the numbers on the requirements for scheduled volunteer requirements for EJCs/BJCs. The large consumers of volunteers are:
•    Badge Control
•    Registration/Information Desk (also merchandise sales)
•    Bar
•    Litter picking / Tidying
•    Stewarding at shows and parade/games

As the Registration Desk and working on the bar involve handling cash, there needs to be a form of vetting for these roles, but the other roles can be open to most adults. Litter picking can be done by kids, but this needs some caution as it depends on what areas they are litter picking in.

The frustrating element is when people come up to you as a volunteer co-ordinator and say "I'd like to help, what do you want me to do?", when you don't have anything suitable for them to do.  This is mainly because they want to volunteer immediately rather than a scheduled time later on and they don't want to go "litter picking" (which is the stand-by thing that almost always needs doing). If this happens a number of times then people say that it's not worth going to volunteer.

One thing that I'd like to see slightly expanded is a "volunteer hangout" area; with a fridge (stocked with some milk) and tea and coffee making facilities. From experience, I'd only have a limited number of cups, and encourage people to bring their own (to avoid a build-up of unwashed cups). Some comfortable seating is helpful. I know that access to an electric kettle is very convenient if you want to have a hot water bottle on a cold night! This is a way of thanking volunteers in a practical way that doesn't break the budget when you scale it up. This isn't a completely sectioned off area, but rather an area marked "for volunteers". I also think that if people are doing heavy lifting [i.e. fencing] for hours then they should be given refreshments to keep the energy going.

I'd also like people's opinions on how to promote volunteering, before and during the convention without becoming irritating. One of the things that I most enjoy about volunteering (which I do a lot of at the bigger conventions) is meeting new people. If I didn't volunteer I would have stuck largely with people that I already knew.

•    So what motivates volunteers? Specifically, what motivates you to volunteer at a juggling convention?
•    What do you think is an appropriate "thank you" (other than just saying "thank you"!)
•    After how much time volunteering do you think that you should be fed?

Dee

# by Dee, 2012-01-22 19:01 GMT Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

This is in response to Dee's Big Talk post about festival volunteering, it's not worthy of a Big Talk reply, hence putting it here. [I disagree, hence putting it here! - Orin]

Huge disclaimer, the only festival I have actually been to was in fact the EJC 2006 in Millstreet that Dee and Stephen and company organised very well in my opinion (see disclaimer).  So this is from the first-time festival goer point of view.

After travelling all that way and doing a fair bit before I got to Millstreet and it being my first ever Juggling festival, initially I just did not want to volunteer and lose valuable fun time and felt a wee bit guilty about it.  After the first few days when the buzz reduced and feeling a little overloaded on juggling and having been slightly frustrated at the on site "internet cafe", I thought as an experienced IT worker I should probably volunteer to help in that area.  After wondering how to do so and looking around I came across a rather cold unfriendly note which basically communicated they did not want any more help in that area.  If there had been someone to discuss it with, I could have pointed out that I likely knew more than 80% or more of the current volunteers in that area and that I had ideas on how to solve some of the issues and frustrations being experienced.  Once I had gotten over it and thought I would volunteer for something mundane instead, it seemed that everything that needed volunteers during my by that stage highly unpredictable waking hours had plenty of people already signed up.  In short, once I was inclined to help out, there didn't seem to be any need for me.  Now, I'm not criticising, I'm just sharing the experience from my point of view in case there's any value in it for any festival organisers.

Dee also asked for incentive ideas:

• discounted "I volunteered at ...." t-shirts (only for volunteers obviously and maybe only if they volunteer a minimum number of hours)
  
• discounted festival DVD
• record hours volunteered and have a tiered rewards system based on different levels of time given
• a coupon system for time volunteered so that volunteers can "spend" the coupons on whatever they like e.g. at on site vendors, on the festival DVD
• preferred seating at shows

hmmm they're all really the same idea aren't they

other suggestions:

• pair newbies with experienced volunteers so the newbie doesn't feel lost
• when taking the names of volunteers, grab their cell number so you can send TXTs specifically to them or broadcast TXTS like "we need 2 people for such and such at such and such a time and place"
• give volunteers the volunteer co-ordinators cell number so they can call or TXT with their unexpected availability (or unavailability)

# by Kelhoon, 2012-01-23 18:35 GMT Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

This is what I've come up with myself as an examplar timetable for running volunteers at an EJC:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnbIZmKZXOdjdDMzZnFqRXdyaHI5RnVIQzllRlhPM1E

For the numbers needed at an EJC, this is what I've come up with off the top of my head (after years of experience) - I'd like some additional eyes to glance over it and see if I've missed anything obvious.  Many numbers are dependent on the size of the site and numbers attending, but it's mainly to check if I've missed an obvious task!

I like the friendly appearance of the timetable here

http://dev.jugglingedge.com/timetable.php?TimetableID=4&

I think that this would be a good "outward facing" timetable that could be filled in before the convention - but one of the problems about jugglers signing up to volunteer before the convention starts is that you don't know what workshops are when at that point!  This creates a problem when things need to be changed during the week - keeping track of which "version" of the timetable is currently operational becomes a mammoth task.

I also really like Lorri's suggestion about using non-jugglers: I've found some of the most reliable volunteers to be parents of jugglers - they want something to keep them occupied and in a location that, if they are needed for some emergency, they are easy to find. This is especially useful for registration desk during the week!  Having people who want practical experience in event management on as "super-volunteers" throughout the week is a "win-win" situation.

Something I have done, for younger jugglers especially, is written a reference for some of the more enthusiastic volunteers after the convention; this is especially helpful for those who have had little "workplace" experience.

# by Dee, 2012-02-02 14:00 GMT Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

Doesn't Berlin have a history of mandatory volunteering? I've not been myself, but have heard from people who have that normally when you arrive you are immediately booked into your 1 hour volunteering slot.

# by fak, 2012-06-19 11:04 BST Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

I've been a few times to Berlin and don't remember volunteering as ever being mandatory, although it is expected (at least that is how it was translated to me).

Personally I don't like signing up for slots immediately on arrival, as I like to have a look at the programme, workshops etc first before committing to a time. On the occasions that I have been to Berlin I have never signed up immediately, although I have always managed to fit in at least an hour or so sometime during the festival. I do remember at least once returning to the sign up board late on the first day to find out that all of the slots were full; even the really inconvenient ones; which was great for the festival, but probably let a few people off the hook.

I don't really like the forced approach, and feel it could be quite intimidating, especially if you were new to juggling or if the festivals native tongue was not your own. Having a 'badge of shame' until you volunteer also doesn't quite sit right with me, but may achieve the goal of getting the required number of volunteers.

At a number of B(ritish)JC's / EJC's I do feel that the visibility of where and how to sign up for volunteering is rather obscured, and the expectation that volunteering should be undertaken is not expressed very forcefully on registration. Berlin certainly gets around both of these hurdles and has in my experience has generally succeeded in getting the required help the organisers desire (subtext: no substitute for ruthless German efficiency!)

James

# by jamesfrancis, 2012-06-19 17:31 BST Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

It was my first Berlin convention, so I have no comparison with other years.
One was not required to sign-up for a volunteer job right at the registration. One was not even forced to do it at all as the 'Looser-badge' gave full access to the entire convention and show tickets were completely independent.

The guys from Berlin said that they have had some problems getting enough volunteers in past years, but I didn't dig into details there. On the other hand the Berlin convention is a rather big and cheap one with over 800 participants over 4 days and 25 EUR (30 EUR onsite) registration fee. They rely heavily on volunteers to keep it that way and have many jobs during the 4 days, especially for the included breakfast that goes from 9 a.m till 2 p.m.

From other conventions i know the problem of having a hard time motivating people to volunteer, especially people new to conventions. A constant reminder like this badge is not a bad idea imho.

# by xchaos, 2012-06-21 23:47 BST Parent

Re: Volunteering at juggling festivals

I think the idea of trading the "real" pass for volunteer hours is brilliant, but calling people "losers" before they have even got past the front desk seems a pretty unpleasant way of treating customers.

I also wonder what happens to people who come looking for volunteer work but are surplus to requirements. Do they have to remain losers?

# by emilyw, 2012-06-22 11:14 BST Parent

bah. Only the first 5 minutes. I am disappoint. Perhaps I'll have to dig out the VHS afterall.

# by Little Paul, 2013-02-12 21:27 GMT Parent

How long is the whole thing?

# by ^Tom_, 2013-02-12 22:47 GMT Parent

about 25 minutes I think. It can be had on DVD from various places.

# by Little Paul, 2013-02-12 23:01 GMT Parent

I was close. 26 minutes. http://www.jugglingstore.com/bobby-may-dvd-607.html

# by Little Paul, 2013-02-12 23:04 GMT Parent

*sells vhs*

*buys twelvetyhundred dvds*

# by Little Paul, 2013-02-13 11:48 GMT Parent

Thanks for the headsup, that's very tempting.

# by Little Paul, 2013-02-07 14:14 GMT Parent

I *think* I've seen it done with artistic bikes, but I can't think who it would have been let alone any video example. (My memory isn't exactly infallible either)

I assume you would need at least a fixie (so that the pedals don't stall when your foot gets to the bottom) and I should think that steering is a right bugger.

# by Little Paul, 2013-01-14 19:50 GMT Parent

Really?! You can't trust anyone these days!

Although fortunately for you they haven't technically been sold yet! :P

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-27 13:13 GMT Parent

Now there's a Herculean task.

Back when I was writing 3 ball tutorials, I used to get inundated with emails giving alternate names of tricks. MANY MANY tricks have been invented independently so legitimately have different names. Inventing tricks is quite an exciting & personal thing & everyone invented it first.

For the record though, Relf's Revenge, Relf's Revenge 6, Relf's Rubensteins, Relf's Factory & the Orinoco Flow are all mine, & I can vouch for Dave's Dilemma & Harrison's Hang being born in Tunbridge Wells too!

Anyone else remember when 441 used to be Parallel Schizophrenia?

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-07 18:43 GMT Parent

It certainly is, yes.

Well, I'm grateful for you assistance with those three ball tricks, but I thought I'd start by doing slightly more well-known ones, if that's all right - if I include any trick there're going to be thousands of entries. Maybe after those though...

I've never heard that name for 441 - was it at all common?

# by Varkor, 2012-12-07 22:05 GMT Parent

I don't think it was particularly common, it was the name given when I was first taught the trick in a time before siteswap had really entered into the juggler's language. I can remember it was the name used by at least 3 other people from my neck of the woods. However, I have talked about the name more recently to jugglers from other parts of the country & no one has heard that name.

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-07 22:35 GMT Parent

I've heard of it.
"See-saw" for the Box too.
"Utter confusion" for Mills Mess

And I invented them all. :-)

# by The Void, 2012-12-07 23:02 GMT Parent

Ah yes, the box was the see-saw when I learnt it too. I vaguely recall that was the name used on the MBTM instructional video at the time.

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-07 23:09 GMT Parent

No, I invented all the tricks.

# by The Void, 2012-12-08 19:20 GMT Parent

Oh, right. Thank you for clarifying that. I had always thought Mills Mess was invented by Steve Mills, but now that you mention it, I did think that that explanation seemed a bit voidless.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-08 20:10 GMT Parent

Ah, thank you. That's an interesting distinction.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-08 17:53 GMT Parent

I have heard 441 described as paranoid schizophrenia, but I'm not sure if that was before or after I heard it called 441 - so that's not much use is it!

I'm sure I've also heard it said that 441 as a pattern didn't exist until site swap was used to generate it, but have never really believed that as it seems a fairly obvious pattern (admittedly that's with full knowledge of its existence)

# by Little Paul, 2012-12-09 20:55 GMT Parent

It was a bloody long time ago - '88 or '89 I guess - but IIRC Colin Wright explained that 441 was the first really distinct pattern that he and his colleagues came up with and validated using their version of SS.That's not to say it wasn't independently invented before, of course, but it is a clear instance of an invention having taken place, which Mr. Wright could probably verify or deny.

# by Cedric Lackpot, 2012-12-09 21:34 GMT Parent

Yeah, I think both separate creations (if they were independent) will be worth mentioning. It would be good if I could find out who actually came up with that name for 441, when they did it, and actually confirm when 441 was discovered by Colin Wright and his colleagues, to see which came first.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-09 21:42 GMT Parent

I've been thinking about creating a wiki-based site. Eventually I think that is what I'll do, but for now I think it's quicker and easier just to use a document-based format. If it really picks up in speed, or when I have a significant number of entries I'll make the transition.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-09 21:38 GMT Parent

With truly new tricks, that should be true - however, many tricks performed nowadays as "new" tricks are actually very old and are just coming into popularity now. I'll certainly use videos as sources, but I think speaking to the supposed creators is probably the best approach.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-09 21:40 GMT Parent

More details about Leeds Juggling Convention (#LeedsJugglingConvention) might be found on their website www.juggler.net/leeds

There will also be the opportunity to pre-register for BJC 2103 (#BJC2013) at Leeds, before the price goes up at the end of the month.

# by Mïark, 2012-12-01 19:23 GMT Parent

Of course, mince pies too, just for some variety

# by Alice, 2012-12-02 18:34 GMT Parent

Any info on workshops? :P

# by mrawa, 2012-12-03 15:00 GMT Parent

I was wondering that too. Even though I can't attend, it's still nice to see what I'm missing out on :P

# by Varkor, 2012-12-03 16:40 GMT Parent

The current workshop schedule is as follows. If anyone would like to do a workshop please let me know and I'll pencil you in. Or just turn up and stick it on the board on the day.



1pm
Steph Robinson – Beginner Poop
Ross Burton – Whip Cracking

2pm
Ash Ferrari – Multi-Hoop
Jim Halloran – Contact Ball

3pm
John Godbolt and Piers van Looy – Partner Poi Skillshare
Lawrence Turner – Balloon Modelling

4pm
Steph Robinson – Isolation Hoop
Jim Halloran – Hat Manipulation (please bring your own hat)
Ross Burton Whip Cracking (repeat as necessary)


See you all in Leeds!

R.

# by Alexander Rossi, 2012-12-04 16:44 GMT Parent

Is "Beginner Poop" a typo or a new circus discipline?

# by Mïark, 2012-12-04 16:51 GMT Parent

I could correct that. But I'm not going to.

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-04 17:34 GMT Parent

Could be the abbr for partner hoop...

# by mrawa, 2012-12-04 18:03 GMT Parent

It's poi-hoop.

# by Alexander Rossi, 2012-12-04 18:07 GMT Parent

Good job I didn't change it then. I was not aware of this movement.

# by Orinoco, 2012-12-04 18:15 GMT Parent

Bowel movement?

# by Little Paul, 2012-12-04 19:08 GMT Parent

Well, if it stands for "poi-hoop", it's effectively the same thing.

# by Varkor, 2012-12-04 20:37 GMT Parent

Shhh you

They're two of my all time favourite props combined in one skill... Now if someone can get shaker cups in there as well...

# by Little Paul, 2012-12-04 20:44 GMT Parent

Was that... British humor? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfh4Mhp-a6U

# by Rob van Heijst, 2012-12-04 21:58 GMT Parent

Update

1pm
Ash Ferrari – Multi-Hoop
Ross Burton – Whip Cracking

2pm
Steph Robinson – Beginner Poop
Jim Halloran – Contact Ball

3pm
John Godbolt and Piers van Looy – Partner Poi Skillshare
Lawrence Turner – Balloon Modelling and Poker Chips
Ross Burton Whip Cracking (repeat as necessary)

4pm
Steph Robinson – Isolation Hoop
Jim Halloran – Hat Manipulation (please bring your own hat)

# by Alexander Rossi, 2012-12-07 20:35 GMT Parent

comic sans = latin for "without humour" ?

# by Kelhoon, 2012-12-04 02:05 GMT Parent

was it? (Well, you would know I suppose) it's remarkably consistent in the lettering if it was.

I think I'll convince myself that it couldn't possibly be Comic Sans, just so I can carry on wearing it...

# by Little Paul, 2012-12-04 15:53 GMT Parent

You can't get much better than silhouette-based posters, I've always thought. Nicely done, although a bit of colour could be nice (I assume you haven't got any due to printing costs).And just because I like being a pedant, the standard in British English is to use full stops rather than colons in times (e.g. 7.30 rather than 7:30) :D

# by Varkor, 2012-10-18 21:11 BST Parent

Either can be used according to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_the_United_Kingdom

# by peterbone, 2012-10-19 12:10 BST Parent

Traditionally though, it has been the full stop. Too many people are following the Americans' example now though. Almost certainly due to the fact almost every digital watch uses a colon.

# by Varkor, 2012-10-19 16:48 BST Parent

Traditionally, the language has dynamically adapted to the needs and desires of its users. Thus the more prevalent use of the colon in recent times is entirely traditional.Is there some animus you have against the double stop? I've always liked it myself since it tends to rule out other uses, whereas the single stop lends itself to confusion with decimal fractions amongst other things. It's a bloody good job the language adapts!

# by Cedric Lackpot, 2012-10-19 18:05 BST Parent

You could use that rule to say literally anything is "traditional" in the English language — it's a totally incorrect way to use it.I fail to see a situation in which the full stop separator could be misleading if used correctly — perhaps you could show me how? :D

# by Varkor, 2012-10-19 21:34 BST Parent

An experiment to find the peak shadow length in metres finished at 14.22

Is that 14.22m or 2:22pm? Yes it's a poor sentence but that's not the point. It's not about writing correctly, it's about writing unambiguously.

# by Orinoco, 2012-10-20 15:11 BST Parent

And I like the flyer. Very constructivist, or something.

# by The Void, 2012-10-18 21:44 BST Parent

I love the look of the flyer. Really striking design.
I wonder if it might be a good idea to add a little more information if you want to encourage new members or people from outside the juggling community? Things like beginners welcome, equipment supplied, all ages, a brief sentence describing what you do...

Phil

# by Phil Blackmore, 2012-10-20 13:19 BST Parent

We did have beginners welcome on the flyer and thought it looked better without.
We decided all the information needed is on the TWJC web site or can be obtained by phoning or emailing.

# by Topper, 2012-10-20 20:13 BST Parent

Bit of a high start price....
And it's the wrong one (for me) :-(

# by The Void, 2012-10-18 19:09 BST Parent

What is covered in volume 2?

# by DavidCain, 2012-10-19 05:37 BST Parent

Preface
Jugglers on Horseback
Juggling Clowns
Strong Jugglers
Gentlemen Jugglers
Other Jugglers
Funny Jugglers
Talking Jugglers
Three-Piece Jugglers
Ball Jugglers
Juggling Solos and Duos
Club Juggling Troupes
Hoop Jugglers
Female Jugglers
Acrobatic Jugglers
Jugglers on Ladders and Globes
Jugglers on Unicycles and Slack Ropes
Balancing Artistes
Diabolo
Foot Jugglers
Street Jugglers
Tips for Beginners
International Jugglers Association

# by peterbone, 2012-10-19 10:11 BST Parent

Most of those chapters are common to Volume I without the early history Chapter. I guess that what you get in Volume II is a different set of photos and the three last chapters, which aren't in Volume I.

# by peterbone, 2012-10-19 10:18 BST Parent

Thanks.

# by DavidCain, 2012-10-20 03:25 BST Parent

If there was the possibility, would it be worth getting both volumes then?

# by Varkor, 2012-10-20 19:06 BST Parent

I would say that if you are in a position to get both at a price you're happy with, do so.

They're both very interesting reads for different reasons. If you can only get one, then volume 2 is likely to be the biggest hit of awesome for the juggler in you, and volume 1 is probably more interesting for historians of juggling/promo material in general

# by Little Paul, 2012-10-20 19:27 BST Parent

Bah! Bloody 3G connection

# by Little Paul, 2012-10-20 19:38 BST Parent

You can say that again etc.

# by Orinoco, 2012-10-20 19:40 BST Parent

That is considerably more than I've ever spent on books in my life.

Books generally just make their way towards me of their own accord which is nice. I recently acquired a large portion of Michael Crichton's back catalogue which I'm enjoying a lot. I just finished A case of need which was really good.

# by Orinoco, 2012-10-26 13:32 BST Parent

Well, you could try asking KHZ if he's willing, but I imagine there'd be quite a few owners of the paper version who would be horrified at the possibility of their precious volumes becoming somewhat devalued.Personally, I think they are ridiculously overvalued at the moment, and I speak as an owner of a very fine copy! The Taschen Circus Book is just as interesting in my opinion (though I admit it's a book about circus, not juggling), knocks 4,000 Years into a cocked hat for production values, and is between a tenth and a fiftieth of the price depending on which grossly overinflated valuation you choose to go with.

# by Cedric Lackpot, 2012-10-27 19:08 BST Parent

I've got a lot to say about this subject (as you might expect) as I can see both sides of the "ebook" fence, and which side I come down on changes every time I think about it. If I get around to it, I'll write a big post, there's certainly enough to do so!

However, a couple of quick points:

I agree, the prices being reached on ebay are in excess of what the books are worth paying for (as gorgeous as they are) - but I'm seeing this a lot on ebay with all sorts of collectables. The price people are willing to pay on ebay just seems to be higher than through other channels.

I paid £100 for my 1950s phone exchange directly from another collector, I've obtained spares for it either for free or by swapping for items I don't need. However, I've seen just the chassis (none of the difficult-to-find useful working parts) go on ebay for £250 and complete working units (which were still less complete than mine) top £600.

Was that a lucky purchase on my behalf? Or is ebay a feeding frenzy of overpricing amongst bidders with deep pockets who don't know any better?

The Taschen Circus Book is *awesome* and a complete bargain if you ask me. If you don't already have a copy and are lusting after 4000 years, sort your priorities out and get Taschen first (and a copy of "Virtuosos of Juggling" and "Juggling with finesse" which are both cheap as chips and contain plenty of photos which are of the same standard/inspiration value as 4KY)

If I didn't already have those books (and "Juggling - The art and its artists" which is also more a accessible price than 4KY) then I'd be shopping for them first, unless of course a copy landed in my lap at a bargain price.

For years, I lusted after a copy of "Cards as Weapons" by Ricky Jay. It's another book which commands prices disproportionate to its contents value. A couple of years ago, I got a hooky PDF version and all the joy went out of it.

Cards as Weapons is poorly written (4KY suffers from that too), learning card throwing from it would be difficult. The bubble burst for me within about 5 minutes, and I'm no longer interested in acquiring a copy. I'm not even interested in it enough to know which hard disk the PDF is on.

Had I obtained a physical copy of the book, I'd probably still be excited about it as a collectable object and would look proudly upon it on my bookshelf.

tl;dr
Sometimes a book is more than then information it contains. Ebay is not the best place to buy this stuff.

# by Little Paul, 2012-10-28 16:27 GMT Parent