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How about this place as a Bungay Balls Up day trip? It's about an hours drive from the farm. Apparently the family have been performing and trading in magic since the 1890's.

# by Monte,

Blimey Monte, I'm amazed someone of your, um, distinguished vintage hasn't heard of Davenports before. I think I bought my first ever pack of modelling balloons from them when they had a shop -weirdly - in pedestrian tunnels of Charing Cross underground station, back in the late 80s. As purveyors of magic stuff they had a fearsome reputation, and yes, they have been around forever.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Call a spade a spade. Old is the word you're looking for.So has everyone been to the museum then? Not being particularly into magic I had not heard of the place till I met the chef a few weeks ago.Looks like an interesting place to visit though. Personally I would rather visit Sutton Hoo or Caister Castle but Davenports is probably better for Jugglers.

# by Monte, Parent

I'd be more up for Hoo too.

# by The Void, Parent

Its really not far to Sutton. I'm ashamed to say I've never been.

# by Monte, Parent

I'd be up for all of the above!

# by Little Paul, Parent

They're still trading in Charing Cross underground. I've only been in there twice, both were wonderful visits, one because I met Jerry Sadowitz in there (who I recognised at the time) and one because I met Pat Page (who I didn't recognise... until I was on the train home)- both are *wonderful* closeup workers, and I've got books by both which contain material so far above my capabilities that reading them was largely an academic exercise.

Both were fun to meet, although Pat isn't anywhere near as offensive and miserable as Jerry... but then who is? :D

# by Little Paul, Parent

[VIDEO] Klown Karma

Hi people. Yohann (of Les Beaux Frères) and I wrote a short series of sketches, inspired by the idea of a clown who couldn't get away from being a clown. The music was then composed for each episode, by Who are you.
For now it's just 5 episodes, as a sort of experiment, but if it gets some attention then we already have ideas for a whole bunch more.
They'll be coming out each Monday, with the first one right here:


# by Norbi,

This got reported on /r/juggling. Somebody be butthurtin' I think. Have you sent it to Jason Garfield?

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

I frequent quite a few subreddits, and they all seem to share the same traite. That is to post something ever so slightly off-topic, or possibly previously posted/asked, and get downvoted into oblivion.
For SOME odd reason, I expected jugglers to be different. I've learnt my lesson now, /r/juggling is not a place for jugglers to hang out and chat about whatever...that's what the Edge is for :-)

# by Norbi, Parent

To be fair Norbi, /r/juggling is almost entirely serene and forgiving, unlike the vast wasteland of mean-spirited subs that comprise so many of the backwaters of reddit. Keep on posting there if you please, one report in a blue moon ain't gonna make a whit of difference.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Heh! Great gag!

# by Orinoco, Parent

Amazing archery video currently doing the rounds on FB:

# by Orinoco,

Fucking awesome. Also, where do I send the bill for two children who are now besotted with the idea of archery/parkour/badassmuthafucka lessons?

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Plate spinning poles

Hey guys,
I got asked to do a plate spinning act this summer. I have never done any plate spinning in my life, but it sounds like a fun challenge.
Now I wonder, does anyone here have any experience with building plate spinning poles? I need to find out how to connect those poles properly to a table so that it can wobble just enough, if you have tips or ideas they would be very welcome.

And since you've all shown such cool handstand videos: What is the best plate spinning act you can think of?

I'll start with one I like, though there isn't much spinning in it ;)

# by Hapiel,

Last time I went to the Nederlands JongleerFestival I went to a workshop with Amazing Marcel who was showing how to spin china plates on fixed poles. I don't know if he was the best plate spinner in the Netherlands, but he definitely told everyone he was amazing.

# by Mïark, Parent

No doubt about his amazingness. I'll be talking with him coming NJF

# by Hapiel, Parent

I like David Burlet

This Jon Anton video was posted the other day

For me it seems the thing about plate spinning acts is that they're as much about what you do in between spinning the plates. The tray/glass/spoon thing seems popular, but there's a lot else you can put in there.

Plate waltzing is a good one too, though I've never made any progress with it

# by Little Paul, Parent

And of course our very own Ian Marchant

# by Little Paul, Parent

No idea what his name was, but there was the chap on Record Breakers/Blue Peter/both when I were nobbut a lad who held/broke the world record for simultaneous spinning plates, with around 40. I'm fairly sure he used to be listed in the GBR back in the day but I doubt records like that have a very long shelf life so you might need to find an elderly copy to find out.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

I remember watching that too, I've been trying to find him on YouTube - but I'm not having much luck

I remember it being very exciting watching him run all over the place correcting plates

# by Little Paul, Parent Says "Egea Junior" in 1989 - not found any video or photos yet :(

# by Little Paul, Parent

Didn't Winston Eyebrow break this record at some point? Or am I remembering that wrongly?

# by The Void, Parent

Has an interesting technique (although is a little pantomime heavy on the clowning for my liking)

# by Little Paul, Parent

Haha, what a strange style of clowning indeed

The throwing is cool, it reminds me of these 2 guys

Also, in the vid you posted you can see clearly they have some special tips on their poles... I suppose that wood just wears out too quickly because of the friction, but I wonder what to use instead..

# by Hapiel, Parent

About three years ago I did a gig in a black unitard with white balls stuck all over it. It was doing motion capture for a circus themed video game designed to help stroke victims regain arm movement. Basically the idea was to incorporate exercises that help to train motor skills into the required actions for a simple video game character, using nintento wii style controllers.

Anyway I digress from the point..

One of the things I did capture for was a plate spinning act. They had requested plate spinning, but had not described it in detail. So I borrowed a plastic plate and stick on the day of the gig and stuck it in my prop bag. When they asked about doing plate spinning they were expecting a full plate spinning act with a rig like the ones in this thread - which I obviously couldn't provide there and then with just a plate and a stick...

Or could I..

It was motion capture, so I suggested breaking it down into sections and letting the animators reassemble them later. We captured the motion of a plate on a stick a number of times to get a varied section of plate spin movement (which was not so easy once the plate and stick had little reflective balls stock all over them). Then did a section of effectively miming what a plate spinning act would be doing - with imaginary poles and plates. I think I might have even done capture for the drops with appropriate hamming up of the drops.

I was reminded about it reading this and went looking for the game to see if there was any video of it - and there is!

Video about the project itself:

Video of in game footage:

Plate spinning is at about 27 seconds in.

Now bearing in mind that I've never done plate spinning on stationary poles, and we didn't have a rig - it didn't end up coming out too badly.

Oh and If you are wondering I was also the juggler, the lion tamer - and I seem to remember walking on an imaginary tight rope..

# by Ewano, Parent


# by The Void, Parent

Hahahaha! Awesome!

How *do* you land these gigs?

# by Little Paul, Parent

So far it seems to be by mainly telling people I don't want to do gigs..

# by Ewano, Parent

What kind of plates are usually used? I only know of the plastic ones and metallic ones, but it sounds like porcelain.

# by Solander, Parent

I still need to experiment with this, but as far as I can tell:

Real ceramic plates. That is for sure. A lot of what you can buy in stores has a rim that is more than enough to keep your stick in the middle. I think that slightly deep plates are better, as they have more of their weight on the outside they might spin longer. That would explain why you see so many people spinning bowls also. I don't know ideal diameters for this bottom ring, but if this is a bit bigger you get a nice wobbly effect a few seconds before they drop...

In the first video I posted they use another spinning technique, which I found more videos of. I don't know if they use special plates for this, it seems weird that the plates are just able to balance on their center if there wouldn't be a bit of a hole in the center.

# by Hapiel, Parent has some ancient wisdom on this. Specifically in the "Ball or Plate on Stick" and "Plate and Basin Spinning" sections.

I did have a little play with this stuff ages ago (with a bit of bamboo cane clamped to the bench in my workshop, with a sawn off nail stuck in the top of it) - with a flexible stick and a small square of tape in the centre of the plate a standard ceramic plate will stay centred. However, because it stays centred, when it slows down it will fall off long before it goes "wobbly"

For that to happen, ditch the tape and use a heavy ceramic plate with a "foot" under it. You'll get a reasonably fast stable spin with the plate approximately centred, and then as it slows down it'll precess the stick out to the edge of the plate, where it'll hit the foot and you'll get a nice visual wobbly spin with the stick whipping round in a circle.

I never did anything more than an afternoon playing with it (which is why I've kept my mouth shut about that side of the question in the hope that someone knowledgable will chime in before me!)

Getting a spin started seemed easy, restoring spin to a plate which had slowed down seemed more tricky, but not something you couldn't get the knack of fairly easily.

I don't think it's "special" plates as much as it is cheap plates. Lots and lots of cheap plates. If you're performing, probably from a restaurant supply wholesaler, if you're not performing - charity shops and car boot sales!

I'm fairly sure I've seen acts use large round plastic bowls (like washing up bowls, but bigger) but I can't coax google into giving me some useful looking pictures, let alone videos.

# by Little Paul, Parent

Thanks for the long and in detail description! I will look through the paper and hopefully I'll figure it out. :)

# by Solander, Parent


# by Solander, Parent

What do you mean with plate waltzing? Spinning it on a table, or spinning it between your hands like Burlet does?

As for tricks in between spinning: Yes, I have been thinking of this too.
I hope to find tricks that take a lot of time to set up, but very little time to do. The spoon trick is a good example. The trick itself takes a split second so can be done at the very end, but you can keep yourself busy for ages lining all the spoons and glasses up perfectly.

Any other suggestions? All my ring spinning tricks take long to do...

# by Hapiel, Parent

Plate waltzing is the tabletop spinning, enrich brenn includes it (and 3 other classic tricks) here

IM trying to remember the name of the magician from the turn of the century who included plate waltzing in his act, there are photos of him waltzing bowls up a spiral ramp - which is not something I've ever seen performed!

# by Little Paul, Parent

I'm such a dullard.

John Nevil Maskelyne, his plates and ramp can be seen on this poster (click the image for bigger)

There's a brief video of his plate waltzing here - I recognise the footage, it's reconstructed from a scan of a book which includes a photographic plate that has 2 strips of film down the sides.

Interesting chap Maskelyne. He was one of the first magicians to debunk psychic phenomena - and he invented the door lock for London toilets which required the insertion of a penny coin to open the door.

Which is the origin of the euphemism to "spend a penny"

# by Little Paul, Parent

I thought you were going to mention Signor Blitz who was a magician and juggler in the 19th century (and was possibly the first ventriloquist to use a dummy) - he was so well known that it was worth writing a waltz, slapping his name on it and selling sheet music - - with a picture of the plate waltzing at the top.

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

Coo! I recognise the name in conjunction with ventriloquism, but was unaware of his plate waltzing :)

# by Little Paul, Parent

It's good to know that you read and absorbed the plate section that i wrote on ;-)
I once read on the internet somewhere (so it must be true) that there were half a dozen people (mis)using the Blitz name, while he was still working, to cash in on his success! I think one of the fakes even got a New York Times obituary, despite the real guy dying several years before...

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

I can't be expected to remember everything I hosted on the Internet a thousand years ago :P

# by Little Paul, Parent

Shock! TWH is no more. When did that happen? Is it mirrored somewhere?

# by The Void, Parent

A couple of months back, a series of events (which I'm deeply annoyed about) led to me losing control of the domain name, it's currently being squatted by a rather dubious looking firm who seem to want an astonishing amount of cash to get it back.

An amount of cash Mike and I are not willing to stump up to re-gain control of a site that hadn't had any meaningful updates in almost a decade :/

The content is available on, and I've got a vague plan to spin up a youtube channel to re-host all the videos in one place in an attempt to make some of it available again - although I've not quite got around to sorting that out yet.

# by Little Paul, Parent

Oh, that sounds like a real PITA. :-(
Well, we'd be happy to see a new JTV user appear, should you get around to rehosting.

Hmmm. I might email you about that....

# by The Void, Parent

I'd like to refute the claims of my demise.

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Do you have any evidence to back up your confution? Pi charts and the like?

# by Mïark, Parent

I really enjoyed this lovely ball spinning act found in the related videos o one of these:

He makes it look very easy!

Also whenever I see a rack of plate spinning poles I wonder whether I'm about to see a plate spinning act or a dog agility demonstration. Has anyone ever combined the two?

# by Orinoco, Parent

Hi everyone,
I´m new here. I´m Juli from Germany. I have been juggling for some time, though I´m getting more interested in the online community recently. I´m trying to get 5 clubs to work but mostly I´m interested in passing and takeouts. Won´t make it to the BJC (as last year and the years before) but will be at ejc for sure.

# by JIUJuli,

Hi JIUJuli

Welcome to the Edge, it is good to see more people interested in passing and takeouts, sorry to hear you won't be at BJC this year.

# by Mïark, Parent

yeah, thx. I guess that means it will be Limoncello at ejc Bruneck (as the Berlin convention won´t take place this year)...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Oops! in my anglocentric mindset I misread BJC as British Juggling Convention rather than Berlin JugglingConvention. Yes, it is quite sad that Berlin isn't happening this year as it is one my favourite juggling conventions.

Are you looking forward to the homemade Limoncello at Bruneck?

# by Mïark, Parent

Oh no, that´s fine. I was planning to come to BJC this year but can´t make it. As Berlin is not taking place, we´ll next see at ejc. The homemade Limoncello is very good. I added a lot less sugar so it´s not so sweet. I can drink it without Bitter Lemon, now. And I´ll bring it to ejc although I feel stupid, bringing Limoncello to Italy.

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Hi Juli, welcome to the Edge.

I'd normally ask about your juggling, but now that I know what Limoncello is I'm more interested in that. Do you have a recipe?

# by Orinoco, Parent

Sure do. Will be tested by Italians in a blind, controlled study on Friday. If it´s any good I´ll post it. If not, we can talk juggling...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Oh... tell me more about this study design.... if anyone is interested in this type of thing it's one of the interesting parts of my job [setting up randomisation schemes for clinical trials!]

# by Dee, Parent

Wow, then, I expect you can help me, Dee!
As I´m usually working in cell-based assays I´m purely pre-clinic.
I´m using Limoncello from a German supermarket and Limoncello of Novella´s favorite brand from Italy as controls.
I was thinking to do double blind, so I´d let a colleague who does not drink set up 3 same plates with shot glasses of Limoncello on same color napkins, labelled under the plate. Randomisation for 3 samples? I guess that would be up to that there a strategy for 3? Maybe I should let him offer each sample twice, that´d make it 6 samples and more options? Anyway, double blind should remove any bias and I told only you jugglers that I myself consider the home-made Limoncello very good because it is not too sweet. My colleagues did not get any information beforehand. As to the number of test persons, I´ll have to wait who shows up on friday - scientists always have some more work to do. I was planning to let each of them make a list which they liked best, second best and least with 1 keyword as to the reason for their decision (like: too sweet).
So, what do you think of this study design?

# by JIUJuli, Parent

So, 6 six or more shots per test subject, a sample size unlikely to provide conclusive results, and the very great risk of alcohol-skewed data? Yep, that sounds like any normal Friday night at a juggling convention! Bring it on.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

As mentioned, you need to think  about the effects of alcohol consumption on the taste buds - so I would think about some "drink" scales such as "overall flavour", "sweetness", and "acidity" [and whatever else you may want to consider when comparing the drinks].

As alcohol is involved, I'd keep the questions simple:
For example:
Rank the samples on the colour (if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that).
Rank the samples on the sweetness [not how much they like the sweetness level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
Rank the samples on the acidity [not how much they like the acidity level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
Rank the samples on the initial flavour if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.

From this you may be able to conclude that your subjects prefer a "middle level of sweetness"

If you were doing a scoring rather than a ranking system you could leave more of a space between sampling and also consider the aftertaste of each, but I wouldn't go that far here.  When working on my PhD (in a food research institute) I experienced lots of taste-testing under red-light conditions [so that we couldn't judge the colour of what we were trying out!].  Managing the colour by using white napkins underneath the drinks is an easier way - especially because you do want to think about the colour in this instance.

Good luck and enjoy the tasting.

# by Dee, Parent

It's not science unless someone is wearing a lab coat

# by Little Paul, Parent

Results of Limoncello tasting and winning recipes
It certainly was not science as we did it outside of the lab - so no one wore lab coats!
A test group of 9 people (5F, 4M) tested 4 different recipes of Limoncello.
Favorite was #1, ranked best by 7 out of 9 testers and second best by 1/9.
Second favorite was #2, ranked favorite by 1/9 and second by 5 out of 9 tasters.
Color of Limoncello is not important, as #2 had lowest score on good color for 9/9 testers and still it ranked second in overall favorite.
Acidity is negative in Limoncello, as winning samples on overall favorite (#1 & #2) scored medium to low on acidity.
Medium to high sweetness is preferred as the favorite sample (#1) is second on sweetness whereas the second favorite (#2) is ranked as sweetest.

Recipe #1
Peel the yellow skin off 4 lemons. Be careful not to include the white skin as this will give a bitter taste.
Add the lemon skin to 500ml of 96% ethanol and incubate at room temperature for 10 days.
Heat 1.5L of tap water and dissolve 300g sugar. Let cool.
Pour the lemon ethanol through a fine mesh.
Mix lemon ethanol and sugared water at v/v ratio of 1:3 to obtain < 2L of >32% alc. Limoncello.
Store and serve at -20°C.

Recipe #2
Enter German supermarket
Find "Limoncé"
Go to register before 10pm (after 10pm, no alcohol may be sold)
Pay ~ 8€
Store at room temperature and serve at -20°C.

There are leftovers...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Certified science.

# by Chris, Parent

A German supermarket open after 8pm... so the rumours are true that they exist outside of Karlsruhe?

Do you have any graphs? I'm pretty sure that a pie chart would be the best way to record* the data**.

* record = annoy
** data = statistician

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Sounds delivious, but on the serving temperature is that correct? Strikes me as rather cold.

# by Orinoco, Parent

@ Tom:
Yes, outside of Bavaria, everything is possible.
If I get another break from work, I´ll make the worst worst 3D rainbow colored graph and bring it together with the Limoncello on Saturday. Otherwise I try to stay away from excel.
Good luck in the exams!

@ Orinoco:
4°C and then on ice tastes ok but the Italians in the testing group were adamant about -20°C being THE ONLY temperature.

...and now I´m off to prepare a workshop on an ambidexterous passing pattern for 3 people - 'La vache qui rit'!

# by JIUJuli, Parent

If any of the lemoncello is left over after Friday and you urgently need to get rid of it before the end of the month... then I might know someone who could help.

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Hi Juli
I'm new here too. Passing is great!

# by Maria, Parent

Hi Maria,
greetings to Sweden!

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Just curious. Did you read that I'm from Sweden, or did you figure it out some other way?

# by Maria, Parent

The one on the right is my favourite, I shall call him Ewan.

# by Cedric Lackpot,

... and it's better with sound :-

Turns out it's an actual thing!!

Done wrong, yay, huzzah! :-

Done right, boo, hiss :-

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Hahahaha! Win!

*packs shovel and hardhat for BJC*

# by Little Paul, Parent

Now how do you suppose this was done?

You can ponder the question while you watch....

# by emilyw,

Ha! Very nice

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

Really well.

# by The Void, Parent

Hah, I would have never guessed that!! Super cool!

# by Hapiel, Parent

I did not expect that! Very nicely done.

Red Bull are a fantastic film production company.

# by Orinoco, Parent

4! :D

# by Little Paul, Parent

I don't want to be a snob...but it was done exactly how I thought it was done.
On another note, that guy is so boring. The least amount of style I've seen in a freerunner in a while..although maybe being on a train gave him like artistic liberty.

# by Norbi, Parent

I'm with Norbi. For all the production work they put in, you'd think they could spend it on someone with any amount of any style. What is he even wearing? Also, you'd think they could have filmed it in good lighting conditions. I got bored and started skipping forward. Juliane guessed it was on a train, but I wasn't even sure what the question was. Unfortunately it didn't come out like a retro video, but badly done green screen work. And that's weird, because it seems like it was all done live.

# by lukeburrage, Parent

Yep, I agree with both of you. The only cool thing for me was being surprised at the end (I would have answered 'huge green screen'), but the guy is boring and the light is weird.
I guess it is also kinda harder to make a cool video if you film everything from the same perspective.

It must be fun to create though :)

# by Hapiel, Parent

Jaded old farts the lot of you :-)

I was just happy with the surprise train.

# by emilyw, Parent




It's. Not. A. Bloody. Train! It's a locomotive, or an engine if you must be vulgar and uncouth. Calling it a train is like calling a club a bowling pin.

Weirdly, I think I was looking at that loco on YouTube a couple of days ago but I can't find it now. There's a film of a preservation yard with a collection of locomotives around a turntable where they have one of those quintessentially German locos under steam.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Surely the combination of an engine and a big long thing with stuff on it that moves along tracks is called .... A TRAIN.


# by emilyw, Parent

What emily said, the reveal of the loco pulling the rolling stock with the platform on it inherently reveals the train.

Had the loco not been coupled to any rolling stock at all, I would have agreed whole heartedly with the pedantic rant :)

# by Little Paul, Parent

Come on now, do the locomotive ...

Everybody's doing it ...

# by Kelhoon, Parent

What is the single, most incredible feat of juggling you have ever witnessed? In person, or in video?

I really don't know what to say here, there is so much... So I'll hold my opinion until other people chime in.

# by ejwysz,

I've got a fairly strong feeling that we had a thread with almost exactly that title before. But I just tried a few searches and couldn't find it. Maybe my memory's stretching back to RJ days.
Anyone else remember this?

# by The Void, Parent

I remember a thread about this on RJ a long time ago and think I remember my answer too! (I anwered seeing dietz multiplex from 6 ball fountain to 6 hall hi-mid-low shower, but it was a long time ago and I couldn't find the thread again).

# by Brook Roberts, Parent

First thing that comes to mind is I believe from "28 years of Thomas Dietz".
Where the girl drops a club and Thomas catches it to go from 6 to 7 clubs (or from 5 to 6?)

# by Marlon, Parent

The steal and return from a five club cascade in Get the Shoes' Matrix/kung fu routine

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

GTs did pop into my mind too.
...for the uninitiated.

# by The Void, Parent

That whole (dropless!) routine is something I would really love to have seen live.

Is that signature trick topped (in the gym) by this variant, which left me open-mouthed? , Not a blind, backwards pass, but huge skill and coordination still involved. Bonus points for being a winning entry in Emily's competition too.

# by ChrisD, Parent

D'oh! Somehow managed to write that it wasn't a blind, backwards pass, when in fact it was too, just not an underhand one...

# by ChrisD, Parent

I'll chuck Bobby Mays match/cigarette trick in there, as it looks like nothing but is bastard hard.

# by Little Paul, Parent

Bobby May's trick is indeed amazing. I have tried many, MANY times to catch a cigarette in my mouth from a backcross and only get it very rarely.

I also heard that Enrico Rastelli could juggle 3 matches using only hand and wrist movement. Catching them with his thumb and index.

Anyway... A few on my list:

-7 Club 7-Up 360 (Gatto and Vova)
-11 Rings with a Headbounce (Gatto)
-11 Ball Qualify (Alex Barron)
-Gatto just Running 10 rings comfortably
-Anyone headbouncing 2 balls (actually have only seen 2 or 3 people do it - is it more common than this?)
-Toby doing 5 club Mills (better than anyone else, and comfortably)

I've also heard of someone (don't know wh
o) doing a behind the back blind mill's mess. Is there any video of this?

# by ejwysz, Parent

I approve of your list. The 2 ball head bounce is not common at all these days. I can only think of Gatto running it for a reasonable length of time. I know that Lewis Kennedy can run it a bit. I got up to 13 bounces when I used to work on it, but that was exceptional. Best footage of a 2 ball head bounce has to be Evgeni Biljauer. I did see an old video of someone doing 3, but obviously not for long.

# by peterbone, Parent

On the renegade stage at EJC in Svendborg, Denmark, Thomas Dietz did a routine. At the end (maybe after a very short break) he picked up 5 balls and juggled them on stage for 1 hour with clean finish. It wasn't that interesting to watch on it's own but after a while he moved to the back of the stage and continued whilst other acts came on and performed. At one point the lights briefly went out for one of the other acts and he kept the pattern going.

I'm not sure if his target was an hour but someone shouted that was the current record so he stopped then. We later found out the record had just recently been beaten so he didn't get it but so what, we knew we'd seen something amazing.

# by duncanh, Parent

That is pretty damn epic.

# by ejwysz, Parent

IIRC Tommi holds the 5b endurance record with a time of around 3hr 45min!

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

For the fans of deranged comedy, Chris Lynam was on BBC R4's Loose Ends tonight.

I haven't had a chance to listen since I only caught a minute or two of the intro, but dear old Clive obliquely referred to that bit of business pretty much straight out of the box. Fnarr, fnarr.

Loose Ends on BBC iPlayer.

# by Cedric Lackpot,

So after I wrote this, I went looking, as you do. It turns out the old bugger is still dining out on That. Bloody. Trick. It's far from a definitive version, but he only went and pulled the same old schtick on France's Got Talent ... in 2014!

And as a bonus you get Simply. The. Best. Telly. Hair. Evarrrrr.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Okay. Although it is a shame that I feel like I have to do this, I will provide a disclaimer ANYWAY... I am not racist against any ethnicity, or sexist against any gender, in any respect. That's it.

Why are almost ALL jugglers white males? The juggling community seems so cookie-cutter that I feel like I need to ask for people's opinions on this.

Obviously men and women of all races juggle and object manipulate. But it's clear that most - even moreso when you get to world-class level - fit one colour and gender. I've found that many other performing arts are predominately males too - magic, standup comedy, etc. But the race thing doesn't really apply there.

I've also noticed other trends - most diablo-ists are Asian. Same goes for insane three ball tricks and a great deal of contact juggling.


# by ejwysz,

They're also statistically more likely to be computer programmers... So as I understand it, the boring answer: White males are with almost no exceptions the most privileged demographic on Earth, juggling is time consuming and gets surprisingly expensive after a while collecting various props. The logic there is obvious.

Additionally, I'm personally slightly timid when approaching people who would obviously have a different background to me. This can appear racist, although I like to think I'm not, I am afraid of 'causing offence; so I often suspect I cause more offence by saying nothing at all. Saying nothing at all also came naturally before I learnt juggling as a socially inept, introverted, white male. This one the logic to me is: White male jugglers who learnt because they we're introverted white males experiencing lots of privilege and not realising it, still put off people with more diverse and challenging backgrounds (women, people from different countries or ethnicities, even people with different ideas about money and time :( )

I most admire the people who got into juggling from backgrounds unlike my own, even that can put such people off because it puts even more focus on them... I wish I knew how to balance all this.

There are examples in the computer programming industry that mirror the problems with juggling.

I may not be entirely right, but I feel I'm not entirely wrong. :(

# by RegularJugular, Parent

Do you live in a country that is predominantly white? There don't seem to be so many white jugglers in the south american juggling community or the asian juggling communities (excluding a few tourist areas).

I hadn't noticed that most diabolists/3-ballers/contact jugglers are asian - your sample must be different to mine. There are undoubtedly some amazing asian diabolists/3-ballers/contact jugglers, but there are also non-asians practising those disciplines.

I cannot think of any non-white magicians (other than Ali Bongo), but I probably could only name 4 or 5 magicians.

Sometimes it can be self perpetuating, if people perceive juggling, diabolo, etc as male skills and poi, hooping as female skills, some can be unwilling to learn skills they think are for the other gender.

# by Mïark, Parent

Maybe we can try to perpetuate the stereotype that poi isn't for either gender, and see if there's any improvement...

# by varkor, Parent

Good point ejwysz is obviously not from Tonga, lol.

# by RegularJugular, Parent

The top 10 poi spinners of 2014 are all men actually!

# by Rob van Heijst, Parent

I agree with that last sentence there, but how could you not notice that about Diablo!? Just look up any year's WJF Diablo competition results. I don't think a non-asian has ever even placed.

And as for 3 balls...

I notice here that behind-the-head throws seem much more common in Japan as well.

And the Tonga thing is pretty interesting, but I mean... let's look at the whole picture here. Has a non-white, non-male competitor ever even PLACED in the WJF or the IJA numbers championships? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. If Albert Lucas is hispanic like his and his parents' names suggest, I suppose he would be the only exception I can think of.

# by ejwysz, Parent

Diabolo (not diablo!) originated in China in the 1100s so why wouldn't it be more deeply routed in Asian culture? I don't follow the WJF results but I know the Frenchman Antonin Hartz won the diabolo section at the first WJF competition off the top of my head.

The WJF is always held in a country where the population is 72% white (according to 2012 census). It is a very expensive event to attend, even more so to compete in so it is prohibitively difficult for many people from other countries to attend. Japan is the obvious exception that has two factors that most other countries do not: they are a very wealthy nation & personal excellence is *very* deeply rooted in their culture so the desire to compete is high.

If you are only looking at the WJF competitions you will have an extremely narrow snapshot of the juggling world as a whole. Have you ever been to an EJC or any other festival outside of the US? The WJF attracts attendance of a couple of hundred people, the EJC can be anywhere between 2000 & 6000. The juggling world is a lot more diverse than you think. Just because non white/non males are not going to the WJF events doesn't mean they don't exist, there is a lot more to juggling than just sport juggling too.

# by Orinoco, Parent

I see that everyone in this thread is pretty much trying to disprove my original post - and that's great! I want juggling to be as diverse as possible - and I know it very well can be.

I think you've solved the Diabolo(!) mystery for me, Orinoco, and that makes a lot of sense. You've also got a great point about the WJF, and no, I have not been to the EJC, although I would love to.

I will say one more thing though - I do live in the US, and I have been to juggling conventions in multiple states, and I have NEVER - I mean NEVER - seen a black or hispanic juggler in attendance. Ever. And statistically, that is weird. That's all I'm trying to say, guys, and you can't ignore that point!

# by ejwysz, Parent

> I have been to juggling conventions in multiple states, and I have NEVER - I mean NEVER - seen a black or hispanic juggler in attendance

They do exist, but as a UK juggler my first thought was "Er, what about Skye then?" a black lady juggler IIRC. The fact that my mind turned immediately to the one US black juggler I can think of does underline your point a bit. Also, does Anthony Commarota count as Hispanic at all?

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

I'm no expert on the USA scene(being the wrong side of the pond) but AFAIR Sky doesn't have an e.

What was the name of the chap on r.j years ago with the walking stick manipulation stuff? Drew Brown? I can vaguely remember a few more, but most people on rj haven't ever made a "thing" of their skin colour, so I could easily miss a load just by it never having come up in conversation.

There's a historical list here

Did Bibi & Bicu ever make it to the USA?

Anyway, we could cite examples until we're blue in the face, but there is a huge amount of selection bias in all of our experiences. There are no really good surveys of this stuff (that I'm aware of) - festival attendance is skewed by affluence, Internet surveys are biased by self selected samples, your perception of people's vocations is skewed by the (comparatively) small circle of jugglers you've talked to about their "real" life.

Basing opinion on videos of ija festivals could lead to statements like "the IJA is mostly affluent middle class bearded white men in their 50s who wear socks and sandals" or "the WJF is all socially awkward, thin, teenage boys whose mums cut their hair"

Neither of those statements are (entirely) true, but do exhibit the skewed perceptions you can get when you like at a small section of even a subsection of the community.

# by Little Paul, Parent

YES! See! I feel like the examples are very few and far in between. And I'm pretty sure Anthony is very Italian. :P

# by ejwysz, Parent

Yeah right, posting videos of Japanese conventions and then claiming that the jugglers there, whatever they are doing, are Japanese?? That just sounds silly to me.

Obviously there are still plenty of different cultures around the world. Some developed a juggling subculture, some haven't. Isn't it only natural that Japan developed a different juggling culture than we have here in the west? The assumption that it should be similar seems very very strange to me.

Here in Europe (dunno where you are from) it seems very obvious that different countries have different characteristics or styles in juggling. Single people can have influences on the local trends, props and tricks. In school we comment on each others moves and tricks and say things like 'that looks French' or 'Swedish', based on things we recognize as stereotypical from these countries/cultures.

Cultures are not limited to borders. Clearly there connections between people from the same ethnicity living in foreign countries too. Not surprising that people stick together, end up with similar interests. On top of that, particularly if you talk about men and women, genetics likely play a role in preference too.

WJF and IJA championships are not for all of the jugglers on the world. They attract a certain subculture, which might indeed happens to be white males. So what?

Any activity that targets a small audience (you can count the amount of numbers juggling championships on one hand) likely targets a small demographic....

Also, I second everything Orinoco said.

# by Hapiel, Parent

What it is, from someone who has who has lived and worked on four continents, if you count Europe and Asia as separate continents. You might want to check out the girl jugglers of the Afghanistan MMCC circus or the Ethiopian bounce jugglers. It's a diverse world and so are jugglers.

# by david, Parent

Women in the WJF - leaving aside the "women's devision" I've got Olga Galchenko, Erin Stephens and Laura Ernst - I gave up at that point because the WJF site is hideous on a phone.

Havd a wander through if you have more patience than I do.

# by Little Paul, Parent

For Fight Night Combat, see:

15 female players out of 268 players listed. Admittedly, record keeping by me might not be entirely up to scratch.

# by lukeburrage, Parent

I wondered for a second why JJ wasn't on top of the male list :p

# by Hapiel, Parent

I know there is at least one more: Alex Haas player 181 is listed as male, but actually female.

# by Hapiel, Parent

Thanks! Alex is such an ambiguous name.

# by lukeburrage, Parent

Turns out Alex Haas is the same person as Alex ???

# by lukeburrage, Parent

You are quuick at updating these things! Especially with all these fake names on Fbook I can imagine it is hard sometimes...

# by Hapiel, Parent

Reminds me of something I found a while ago. I found this both fun & fascinating:

# by Orinoco, Parent

Ooh! Nice. I'll play properly when in back on a computer

# by Little Paul, Parent

If you like that you'll love Nothing to Hide by the same person.

# by Orinoco, Parent

Awesome link!!!

# by Hapiel, Parent

Can I post this by Vi Hart? (who made that demo?)

It has nothing to do with the subject but her YT videos are amazing*, or at least I thought they were the best thing since sliced bread when I saw the 'Doodling in Math class' series 3 years ago.

Still reminds me I haven't got very far at drawing even with hundreds of hours of practice in the last 3 years. C- must try harder.

*Although 'videos on the internet'? I know right? Too much juggling to do

# by RegularJugular, Parent

Was supposed to be coding, now I'm drawing snakes.

# by Orinoco, Parent

"You might put your love and trust on the line
It's risky, people love to tear that down
Let 'em try
Do it anyway
Risk it anyway"


# by RegularJugular, Parent

I've been watching recently to figure this out for myself.

Despite the anomalies, displayed above, in North America and Europe juggling is white and nerdy activity (even featured in Weird Al's video on white nerds).

White Privilege is really the answer. Financially, visibly, more celebrated people in nearly all professions are those on the top of the privilege hierarchy.

Of course people juggling in Japan are going to be Japanese, and likewise other cultures will have the people within that ethnicity representing. There are cultural boundaries that make conversations across those cultures more difficult without translators - so we don't see the posts as much, and we don't celebrate those cultures as much. (I am currently living in France, and even the French scene has been obscured quite a bit from my North American eyes simply due to French language differences)

But, there is a distinct population of people of color in North America, and they either don't juggle, or they aren't well represented in the festival and video scene.

# by DawnDreams, Parent

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