Small Talk

Please log in or sign up to join in the discussion.

Search messages

Viewing all threads involving Cedric Lackpot

View older threads

Juggling convention raffles:

Can we all just agree we are happy to pay £1 extra on the door so that no one ever has to sit through a juggling convention raffle ever again.

Surely no one has ever won anything they actually wanted and the price of the day ticket is usually irrelevant compared to the cost of getting to the actual convention itself.

James...

...whose previous raffle wins include: cheap plastic diablo with crappy wooden handsticks, mid length staff occasionally used still to hang my washing from, floppy pink and purple hat.

# by jamesfrancis,

Ha. It's simply not a thing at conventions outside of the UK, from what I've found. I don't remember the last convention raffle I've sat through, and I don't miss it at all!

# by lukeburrage, Parent

My only fond memories of juggling convention raffles, was the chocfest cruit set

I wonder what happened to it

# by Little Paul, Parent

Hahahaha! By all means have a raffle, just don't make people feel they have an obligation to enter & don't hold the draw during the show. Raffle draws are a huge bore for a lot of people. Perhaps combine the draw with the juggling games, make the winner of each game draw a ticket.

It's been a long time since I bought a raffle ticket. As an extra source of income I really like the BYJOTY drop count sweepstake which I will always enter. This may be a bit too cynical for a gala show, but I think it works for BYJOTY because as well as providing a nice prize fund incentive the result also works as a basic metric for how well the current crop of performers is doing.

# by Orinoco, Parent

The original idea for the drop count sweepstake was to raise money for the best trick prize. Half to the winner of the best trick, half to the winner of the sweepstake. It didn't originate as any income source for the convention.

# by lukeburrage, Parent

Oh no, but for another convention it could be a source of income that I think would be far less disruptive than a raffle draw. However, for a gala show it could just feel wrong.

# by Orinoco, Parent

Camvention will not have a raffle next year. I've also noticed foreigners being rather baffled by raffles, and I can't really defend them.

# by Brook Roberts, Parent

I've won some great stuff at convention raffles.  The time to do the draw is at the end of the games, though, when people who haven't entered can wander off and do something else.  During the show after an over-long interval is very much *not* the time to do it.

# by Danny Colyer, Parent

As a convention-goer I despise raffles and I will not enter for fear of accidentally winning a prize, which would probably be a VHS tape about poi. Sometimes I drop some money in the jar anyway and just make sure I don't get a ticket.

I observe that we charged £8 on the door for a one-day convention with a show in 1998, which inflation-adjusted is now £12 or £13. Door prices have not been keeping up.

# by emilyw, Parent

Oh yes & that's the very nature of raffles, prizes are won in descending order of quality so by design they just get worse!

Can I also give potential raffle organisers a hint: The joke where you start the announcement with, "It's a blue ticket…" when there's only one colour? That's been done.

# by Orinoco, Parent

Some people get really funny about raffles.

Whenever I've had to do a draw, I've gone with the "draw the numbers as quick as possible, people can collect the tat in their own time" but more than once I've had complaints from people who expect me to wait for them to amble up and collect their spinning plate before drawing the next number. Or worse, expecting to be able to draw the next ticket themselves *sigh*

People also got really shirty about me pulling out fistfuls of tickets and declaring them all losers. As if doing that makes any bloody difference.

The easiest way to avoid all this tedium and moaning is to not bother with a raffle. If you really must dispose of tat in exchange for extra convention funds, go for an auction and hold it during the interval.

# by Little Paul, Parent

I agree that it makes no difference, but why would you draw and declare a bunch of tickets losers? I get the badassery component of it, but I feel like in many situations it would bring the vibe down instead of up. (I like your idea actually, I promote it) but people suck and that's why it might not work.

# by ejwysz, Parent

The nature of raffles is that there is a perverse incentive for the donors of prizes to unload things that nobody would pay good money for, but that will still take up space in the van on the way back.

The nature of shows is that no matter how carefully one may plan the running order so as to achieve a desired effect in the minds of the audience, people will still want to stuff it all up by inserting a long boring raffle in the middle.

I did once attend a show that was followed by a powerpoint presentation. I don't recommend that either.

# by emilyw, Parent

Now seems like an appropriate time to mention that in my time involved with running it, the Oxford Juggling Convention has never had a raffle (and never will.) If people want a novelty prize they're invited to participate in the 'who can bring me the best crustacean based lunch on the day' competition but in 2 years there have been no participants. This does probably give you better odds of winning something than you get when you participate in other conventions' raffles


On that note, 30th May this year will be the Oxford Crayfish Juggling Convention and I look forward to seeing many of you there.

# by oxford, Parent

Are you serious? I work at Red Lobster and would DEMOLISH that competition. What's my prize?

# by ejwysz, Parent

You probably don't want to win the OJCC/OCJC "prize"...

# by Chris, Parent

I'm completely serious and though the first year the mystery prize was unclaimed and would perhaps have been unappreciated, this year the prize will be better than ever before. I welcome your submission!

# by oxford, Parent

I would question the freshness of a crustacean based dish delivered from the US to Oxford.

# by Orinoco, Parent

I would question the freshness of the prize that has been unclaimed for a year or more.

# by Mïark, Parent

What kind of junky raffles are they running over there?

The Waterloo fest I just got back from usually runs a raffle. I've won a standard kendama, a set of PX3 clubs, a couple sets of decent beanbags, and surely things I've forgotten now...in 7 years of raffles there, I've only lost value once. Most years the grand prize is a unicycle (thanks, Bedford Unicycles!).

At others fests, I've won Gballz and Drop Props (another nice kind of juggling bag, made in Rochester). I use both of those sets of balls to this day. Those two were Chinese auctions (don't be fooled by the name, it's really a raffle).

I certainly agree that winners shouldn't be announced anywhere that everyone is required to be.

# by Mike Moore, Parent

I have an autographed Luftgarden DVD by Michael Karas... Great raffle win! The only juggling raffle I've ever been in. So boo you!

# by ejwysz, Parent

MKJC has a raffle. Last year without the raffle we wouldn't have broken even. The prizes are either donated by the committee or the traders. None of the committee have ever donated rubbish. Also the raffle is timetabled into the running order and for the last 3 years the show has finished pretty much on time (the year before had Steve Rawlings as the final act, he was asked to do 15 minutes and did 50+, not many complained).
It is easy to say just add a pound to the ticket price. For individuals that isn't a problem. For families where the cost gets multiplied it can be more of a problem. MKJC has always tried to be understanding about families and e.g. not charge for under 12s but the costs still mount and plenty of people choose not to buy a raffle ticket.

Nigel

# by It's Him, Parent

I still think juggling conventions are under priced and price isn't a real differentiator in whether people attend or otherwise. For me, getting to any convention costs about a tenner and I usually spend another tenner at least on food, drink or whatever. An extra pound on the gates is minimal in comparison. I agree for families costs mount and child / family discounts where possible should be encouraged and maybe my financial position isn't really reflective of the juggling community, but...

...I just really really hate raffles!

When a 20 minute interval spreads to half an hour followed by a 20 minute calamitous raffle interspersed with unclaimed tickets and people winning free entrance to conventions that they definitely won't go it really just kills the mood for the rest of the show. Coupled with this when you have a 3 hour drive home and people have last trains to catch the absence of a raffle might actually enhance the popularity of a convention and make people more likely to attend in the first place, no?

Rant over

Apologies

# by jamesfrancis, Parent

In the four years I was involved with running BoB, we had two raffles, and then two tombolas.

I introduced the idea of a tombola as we still needed the income, but raffles kill the show vibe (and people who come just for the day mess things up).

It was an great success (in my opinion). The tombolas made twice as much money as the raffles had (I think because if people don't win the first time, they are more inclined to buy another ticket, which can't really happen with the raffle). And loads of people gave me positive feedback about how much they enjoyed it.

So I'd suggest to convention organisers, if you need to raise funds through prizes, try a tombola instead of a raffle. You may well find that you make more money, and the participants have more fun :-)

# by Richard Loxley, Parent

So, as a long time convention organiser this got me thinking - do we really need to get rid of the raffle at Lestival? So many negative opinions and low-level gripes and grumbles - it was almost as if a thread complaining about something someone didn't much care for, brought all the other nay-sayers crawling out of the woodwork!

And then I remembered how little I care for public games and parades, and all the times I've castigated those stupid enough to indulge themselves in them, and all the well-rounded and agreeably reasoned arguments I've made against them, sometimes in the teeth of considerable opp ..... no, wait a minute, that never happened, I have never lobbied against those things. Moaned about them, for sure, but who on earth would argue against people enjoying things just because I don't?[1] I just don't partake of  that which does not appeal to me - simple.

So, because of the appalling way that raffles can drag, the Lestival draw has always been conducted on the principal of 'breakneck speed isn't fast enough!' and we try to rush insanely fast, because we know that lots of people like prizes, but far fewer enjoy the process of distributing them.

The alternative would be to add £1 to the ticket price. Whilst we're at it, could we add another £1 to take away the parade? And another £1 to remove the games? I suck at numbers juggling so perhaps that should be £2 if the games we cancel would've had a lot of numbers endurance rounds. Then lets cheerfully pay up another £1 to get rid of all the poimanglers - I'd do this for free, but one has to be consistent, of course. And another £1 to get rid of endless rounds of gladiators. And one more £1 to lose those stupid fucking jokey convention passes that no-one[2] likes.

And do you know what we would have with the stripped down format and the doubled ticket price? The London Convention, that's what.[3]

And that's why this was an initially attractive but ultimately flawed idea - if you really want to get rid of raffles then do it by addition not subtraction, find something much better to supplant raffles such that the people who do like them have something even better in their place. If that's too much effort then just avoid the bloody raffle, heckle the insane length of some of them, and in the meantime cheerfully indulge other people's enjoyment.

And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.

PS I have won raffle prizes that I really, really wanted, the biggest thing being the set of three juggling rubber chickens - I really put somebody out because I refused, there and then, to swap them for something else much nicer or even take money for them. So I applaud the quality of your rant, James, but I dispute the sentiments.

[1] Well, apart from all of bonkers fundamentalist Christianity whining about gay marriage as if they owned marriage in the first place, and were being forced to be gay, marry a gay, and be gay married. And probably a bajillion other examples as well.
[2] Turns out some people do like convention passes. This kind of argument occurs all the time and it's some sort of an appeal to a majority which is passed off as an appeal to all. So when you say "Can we all agree ..." the answer, from some at least, will surely be no.
[3] I kid, I kid. It was just a cheap joke ... much like the London Convention![3]

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

The difference is if the raffle is during the show, then there is not the same option to just not watch it (assuming you wish to see the show) - the games can be indulged in by everyone who wants to watch/partake and ignored by everyone else. I doubt people would be complaining if it was done during the day/after the show when anyone who wasn't interested could leave.

I always appreciate raffles that actually go fast, although quite a few claim that they will and are anything but.
I did actually enjoy the raffle at Chocfest this year, mainly due to Tiff being a bit mad during it and making it entertaining. It's certainly possible if the effort is put into it - but I feel sometimes it is put in because it's expected.

# by Brook Roberts, Parent

The "even better" thing could be a lawn, big enough for all us grumbly types to go sit on it with our tea/beer and shout for people who like raffles to vacate our small but verdant premises.

# by emilyw, Parent

I thought that was what the bar was for

# by Little Paul, Parent

> And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.

Classy.

# by Mike Moore, Parent

hmmf, it's considered common courtesy among those I know to give people a heads up when sending them video content that might be NSFW or not to be watched during dinner or could be upsetting or whatever.

This is perhaps a cultural difference and it doesn't really surprise me that Reddit is on the other side of it.

# by emilyw, Parent

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I only input text, no links or videos. This is what I see (http://imgur.com/n1vqdLt), is something different from your end?

# by Mike Moore, Parent

I was replying to Jay's text that you quoted, but got confused and thought you wrote it.

# by emilyw, Parent

Well lets be clear, my general grumpiness doesn't just end at raffles. Like you Jay, I also don't like the public games or parades but these are easily avoidable whereas a mid show raffle isn't.

I appreciate what you and others have said though. Some convention raffles aren't so painful and supplementation is a good alternative. As long as some people get some joy out of raffles somewhere, somehow, then I'm sure I can tolerate them quietly in future (not sure cheerful indulgence might be the term I would apply here - but certainly not open disdain).

P.s. Whilst I do dislike raffles I do like the little passes.

# by jamesfrancis, Parent

A new group attempting to formalise the Jugglermail network recently popped up on FB. Not sure I agree with that but anyway...

I was asked to produce a map of jugglers but fortunately someone else set up a Google map so they can deal with holding personal data such as the location of a load of people's homes & the route's they regularly travel. I did say I could use Edge event attendance data to plan routes from one user to another & well, this happened:

Jugglermail route finder.

#NewFeature

# by Orinoco,

Yeah... that was the reason I invited you to the group. That way it would be a little bit more anonymous... but you know jugglers! If I didn't have so many other projects lined up I would have had a crack at it, some kind of 3 dimensional tsp problem..

I've left that group now as 1, I'm not in a position to actually help! 2 I don't want to know what people are transporting or where. Not my business.

# by mrawa, Parent

location of a load of people's homes

Urgh. Why are people stupid.

Please tell me it's opt in, any that they aren't doing anything stupidly offensive like adding "people they know" to the map.

# by Little Paul, Parent

It's opt in, I don't know if anyone is adding other people, but it can be edited by anyone.

# by Orinoco, Parent

Opt in huh? I wonder what kind soul opted me in without so much as a by your leave? 'Cos it sure as fuck wasn't me.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Oh, the Google map is opt in but the rest of Facebook is, well, Facebook.

Fed up with your friends adding you to groups? Add them to something like this group (which is nicer than some of the groups you could add them to if you used your imagination).

# by Orinoco, Parent

Fairly sure I saw that Dave Jellybean opted you in like he did me.
Also it seemed people were saying thinks like I live in Bristol and regularly travel to London rather than I live at 7, Stupid Street, Bristol and will be away from my house on these dates.
Nigel

# by It's Him, Parent

For example, I put my work location which is a matter of public record - to the extent that if you google me, it's the first thing that you get information on.

Yes, I have googled myself recently - mainly to double check what students would see if they looked me up.

# by Dee, Parent

Bounce juggling... I want to start practicing it. I have lacrosse balls (there is no way in hell I can afford silicones) and want to know...

What type of surface should I buy to put over my carpet to practice? A sheet of... marble? What?

# by ejwysz,

Yes, a sheet of stone of some kind is common. Max oddball has one in his Brighton shop for demonstrations. Anything that won't absorb energy so that all energy is returned to the ball. Something flat and hard that won't bend. The slate normally used for pool/snooker tables might be good.

# by peterbone, Parent

So, Home Depot will fix me up? And am I on the right track with the balls?

# by ejwysz, Parent

I've not used lacrosse balls. All I know is that Bobby May used them, so they're probably ok. In the UK we have cheap bounce balls made of rubber. Like these.
http://www.oddballs.co.uk/oddballs-bouncing-ball-p-3123.html

# by peterbone, Parent

You could try asking a tombstone maker whether they have any spelling mistakes you could relieve them of.

# by emilyw, Parent

You'll find much greater amounts of seconds at kitchen worktop suppliers. Unfortunately it will still be eye-wateringly expensive. Marble, granite, and the like are just plain expensive, especially for the rather large pieces that are ideal for bouncing. And synthetic alternatives aren't cheap either.

For a beginner you will need :-

  1.  Mass - the heavier the better is a good rule of thumb.
  2. Mechanical coupling - even a heavy, solid object needs to rest against something heavy and solid. Do *not* place your bounce slab on a water bed.
  3. Flatness - as a beginner, you will find a perfectly flat, true surface more useful than one with better bounce, because your bounces will be true.
  4. Solidity - how bloody hard and obdurate the thing is - the harder the surface, the greater the percentage of kinetic energy it returns to the ball, and therefore the better the bounce.
  5. Smoothness - old paving slabs are ideal ... except they eat sillies for breakfast because they are so abrasive.

So, for someone who already said they can't afford sillies and is willing to compromise (and is prepared to have a practice slab which will never, ever move) you could try finding an old 3'x2' council paving slab and coating it with something - Hammerite, a thin layer of self-levelling compound, whatever, just so long as it is really well bonded to the slab, and remains flat. Some of those bastards weigh 70kg or more though.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

For not a huge amount of money, you can now buy very large ceramic tiles (18" square) On their own they're not much use as they're too thin, however they would be fine if bonded to a concrete paving slab

# by Little Paul, Parent

I managed to find a pretty cheap patio slab that was pretty good from my local B&Q hardware shop. Most of them were rubbish as the surface wasn't smooth and some of them were a bit too soft to get any decent bounce, but eventually I got one that was pretty good (if a little noisy) so long as you could find a flat surface to place it on.

The looks from the staff as I got the slabs out one by one and bounced rubber balls on them was rather interesting!

# by jamesfrancis, Parent

I would recommend lacrosse balls on concrete sidewalk to get started quick and cheap.  If there is grass or sand around, it will catch errant balls.  Moving up from there, Play G-Force balls from Renegade have better rebound to facilitate bounce juggling.  Medium density fiber board or porcelain are not too expensive.  Polished concrete garage floors are nice too.  Bouncing inside never worked for me.  It is loud and carpets wreck rebound.  For top quality and price there is silicone and marble.  Play around with it, let us know how it goes.

# by razor_black, Parent

Not sure where you live, but some people use tennis courts to practice on. Not feasible in Canada right now, as snow kind of muffles the bounce.

# by Mike Moore, Parent

Thanks for the help everyone - this is a wealth of information. I much appreciate it you guys!

# by ejwysz, Parent

How about this place http://davenportsmagickingdom.co.uk as a Bungay Balls Up day trip? It's about an hours drive from the farm. Apparently the family have been performing and trading in magic since the 1890's.

# by Monte,

Blimey Monte, I'm amazed someone of your, um, distinguished vintage hasn't heard of Davenports before. I think I bought my first ever pack of modelling balloons from them when they had a shop -weirdly - in pedestrian tunnels of Charing Cross underground station, back in the late 80s. As purveyors of magic stuff they had a fearsome reputation, and yes, they have been around forever.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Call a spade a spade. Old is the word you're looking for.So has everyone been to the museum then? Not being particularly into magic I had not heard of the place till I met the chef a few weeks ago.Looks like an interesting place to visit though. Personally I would rather visit Sutton Hoo or Caister Castle but Davenports is probably better for Jugglers.

# by Monte, Parent

I'd be more up for Hoo too.

# by The Void, Parent

Its really not far to Sutton. I'm ashamed to say I've never been.

# by Monte, Parent

I'd be up for all of the above!

# by Little Paul, Parent

I didn't become aware of Davenports until very recently either, Monte, despite living in Norfolk. And that was only because the people that run it also do childrens' parties, and juggle a bit.  After that, my daughter went to Davenports with her grandparents and said it was great - I'm looking forward to going sometime.

Sutton Hoo has had a fair bit of money thrown at it by the National Trust lately. There's a decent museum, including replicas of the treasures, and a nice, bright, café.  The actual burial site is, to my mind, a bit dull unless you are very into archaeology. There's a nice enough walk around the site. The best bit for us was meeting a splendidly attired King Raedwald, complete with magnificent gilded helm, dirk and spear. Then later spotting him in the visitors centre, filling out an incident form having cut his finger...

If you all want a change of seaside trip from Southwold, and are prepared to travel a bit further, I'd recommend North Norfolk, especially Wells - the beach walk to Holkham and back is fabulous.

# by ChrisD, Parent

They're still trading in Charing Cross underground. I've only been in there twice, both were wonderful visits, one because I met Jerry Sadowitz in there (who I recognised at the time) and one because I met Pat Page (who I didn't recognise... until I was on the train home)- both are *wonderful* closeup workers, and I've got books by both which contain material so far above my capabilities that reading them was largely an academic exercise.

Both were fun to meet, although Pat isn't anywhere near as offensive and miserable as Jerry... but then who is? :D

# by Little Paul, Parent

[VIDEO] Klown Karma

Hi people. Yohann (of Les Beaux Frères) and I wrote a short series of sketches, inspired by the idea of a clown who couldn't get away from being a clown. The music was then composed for each episode, by Who are you.
For now it's just 5 episodes, as a sort of experiment, but if it gets some attention then we already have ideas for a whole bunch more.
They'll be coming out each Monday, with the first one right here:

http://youtu.be/9z9W9C0a1PY

Enjoy.

# by Norbi,

This got reported on /r/juggling. Somebody be butthurtin' I think. Have you sent it to Jason Garfield?

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

I frequent quite a few subreddits, and they all seem to share the same traite. That is to post something ever so slightly off-topic, or possibly previously posted/asked, and get downvoted into oblivion.
For SOME odd reason, I expected jugglers to be different. I've learnt my lesson now, /r/juggling is not a place for jugglers to hang out and chat about whatever...that's what the Edge is for :-)

# by Norbi, Parent

To be fair Norbi, /r/juggling is almost entirely serene and forgiving, unlike the vast wasteland of mean-spirited subs that comprise so many of the backwaters of reddit. Keep on posting there if you please, one report in a blue moon ain't gonna make a whit of difference.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Heh! Great gag!

# by Orinoco, Parent

To keep from creating new threads, here's episode 2.
http://youtu.be/nfst-OxkFzc

# by Norbi, Parent

I always forget about these American stereotypes... I am glad I have never seen a clown car on stage :p

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

Amazing archery video currently doing the rounds on FB:

http://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk

# by Orinoco,

Fucking awesome. Also, where do I send the bill for two children who are now besotted with the idea of archery/parkour/badassmuthafucka lessons?

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Plate spinning poles

Hey guys,
I got asked to do a plate spinning act this summer. I have never done any plate spinning in my life, but it sounds like a fun challenge.
Now I wonder, does anyone here have any experience with building plate spinning poles? I need to find out how to connect those poles properly to a table so that it can wobble just enough, if you have tips or ideas they would be very welcome.

And since you've all shown such cool handstand videos: What is the best plate spinning act you can think of?

I'll start with one I like, though there isn't much spinning in it ;)
http://youtu.be/FK4nh5I0jpE

# by Daniel Simu,

Last time I went to the Nederlands JongleerFestival I went to a workshop with Amazing Marcel who was showing how to spin china plates on fixed poles. I don't know if he was the best plate spinner in the Netherlands, but he definitely told everyone he was amazing.

# by Mïark, Parent

No doubt about his amazingness. I'll be talking with him coming NJF

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

I like David Burlet
http://youtu.be/BmPgs2XQfJ4

This Jon Anton video was posted the other day
http://juggling.tv/14632
http://juggling.tv/14632


For me it seems the thing about plate spinning acts is that they're as much about what you do in between spinning the plates. The tray/glass/spoon thing seems popular, but there's a lot else you can put in there.

Plate waltzing is a good one too, though I've never made any progress with it

# by Little Paul, Parent

And of course our very own Ian Marchant
http://youtu.be/O6X2SlOa2_0

# by Little Paul, Parent

No idea what his name was, but there was the chap on Record Breakers/Blue Peter/both when I were nobbut a lad who held/broke the world record for simultaneous spinning plates, with around 40. I'm fairly sure he used to be listed in the GBR back in the day but I doubt records like that have a very long shelf life so you might need to find an elderly copy to find out.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

I remember watching that too, I've been trying to find him on YouTube - but I'm not having much luck

I remember it being very exciting watching him run all over the place correcting plates

# by Little Paul, Parent

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/29625b1d26eb44b7bad8969a987cf04d Says "Egea Junior" in 1989 - not found any video or photos yet :(

# by Little Paul, Parent

Didn't Winston Eyebrow break this record at some point? Or am I remembering that wrongly?

# by The Void, Parent

http://youtu.be/pWmnc_4T0ms

Has an interesting technique (although is a little pantomime heavy on the clowning for my liking)

# by Little Paul, Parent

Haha, what a strange style of clowning indeed

The throwing is cool, it reminds me of these 2 guys
http://youtu.be/O4b-6TE_Qe0

Also, in the vid you posted you can see clearly they have some special tips on their poles... I suppose that wood just wears out too quickly because of the friction, but I wonder what to use instead..

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

About three years ago I did a gig in a black unitard with white balls stuck all over it. It was doing motion capture for a circus themed video game designed to help stroke victims regain arm movement. Basically the idea was to incorporate exercises that help to train motor skills into the required actions for a simple video game character, using nintento wii style controllers.

Anyway I digress from the point..

One of the things I did capture for was a plate spinning act. They had requested plate spinning, but had not described it in detail. So I borrowed a plastic plate and stick on the day of the gig and stuck it in my prop bag. When they asked about doing plate spinning they were expecting a full plate spinning act with a rig like the ones in this thread - which I obviously couldn't provide there and then with just a plate and a stick...

Or could I..

It was motion capture, so I suggested breaking it down into sections and letting the animators reassemble them later. We captured the motion of a plate on a stick a number of times to get a varied section of plate spin movement (which was not so easy once the plate and stick had little reflective balls stock all over them). Then did a section of effectively miming what a plate spinning act would be doing - with imaginary poles and plates. I think I might have even done capture for the drops with appropriate hamming up of the drops.

I was reminded about it reading this and went looking for the game to see if there was any video of it - and there is!

Video about the project itself:
http://youtu.be/9HhzYZWbzp8

Video of in game footage:
http://youtu.be/0vT5Xc3rW2U

Plate spinning is at about 27 seconds in.

Now bearing in mind that I've never done plate spinning on stationary poles, and we didn't have a rig - it didn't end up coming out too badly.

Oh and If you are wondering I was also the juggler, the lion tamer - and I seem to remember walking on an imaginary tight rope..

# by Ewano, Parent

Coo!

# by The Void, Parent

Hahahaha! Awesome!

How *do* you land these gigs?

# by Little Paul, Parent

So far it seems to be by mainly telling people I don't want to do gigs..

# by Ewano, Parent

What kind of plates are usually used? I only know of the plastic ones and metallic ones, but it sounds like porcelain.

# by Solander, Parent

I still need to experiment with this, but as far as I can tell:

Real ceramic plates. That is for sure. A lot of what you can buy in stores has a rim that is more than enough to keep your stick in the middle. I think that slightly deep plates are better, as they have more of their weight on the outside they might spin longer. That would explain why you see so many people spinning bowls also. I don't know ideal diameters for this bottom ring, but if this is a bit bigger you get a nice wobbly effect a few seconds before they drop...

In the first video I posted they use another spinning technique, which I found more videos of. I don't know if they use special plates for this, it seems weird that the plates are just able to balance on their center if there wouldn't be a bit of a hole in the center.

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

http://www.juggling.org/papers/stanyon/new-juggling-tricks.html has some ancient wisdom on this. Specifically in the "Ball or Plate on Stick" and "Plate and Basin Spinning" sections.

I did have a little play with this stuff ages ago (with a bit of bamboo cane clamped to the bench in my workshop, with a sawn off nail stuck in the top of it) - with a flexible stick and a small square of tape in the centre of the plate a standard ceramic plate will stay centred. However, because it stays centred, when it slows down it will fall off long before it goes "wobbly"

For that to happen, ditch the tape and use a heavy ceramic plate with a "foot" under it. You'll get a reasonably fast stable spin with the plate approximately centred, and then as it slows down it'll precess the stick out to the edge of the plate, where it'll hit the foot and you'll get a nice visual wobbly spin with the stick whipping round in a circle.

I never did anything more than an afternoon playing with it (which is why I've kept my mouth shut about that side of the question in the hope that someone knowledgable will chime in before me!)

Getting a spin started seemed easy, restoring spin to a plate which had slowed down seemed more tricky, but not something you couldn't get the knack of fairly easily.

I don't think it's "special" plates as much as it is cheap plates. Lots and lots of cheap plates. If you're performing, probably from a restaurant supply wholesaler, if you're not performing - charity shops and car boot sales!

I'm fairly sure I've seen acts use large round plastic bowls (like washing up bowls, but bigger) but I can't coax google into giving me some useful looking pictures, let alone videos.

# by Little Paul, Parent

Thanks for the long and in detail description! I will look through the paper and hopefully I'll figure it out. :)

# by Solander, Parent

Thanks!

# by Solander, Parent

What do you mean with plate waltzing? Spinning it on a table, or spinning it between your hands like Burlet does?

As for tricks in between spinning: Yes, I have been thinking of this too.
I hope to find tricks that take a lot of time to set up, but very little time to do. The spoon trick is a good example. The trick itself takes a split second so can be done at the very end, but you can keep yourself busy for ages lining all the spoons and glasses up perfectly.

Any other suggestions? All my ring spinning tricks take long to do...

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

Plate waltzing is the tabletop spinning, enrich brenn includes it (and 3 other classic tricks) here

http://youtu.be/Zhoos1oY404

IM trying to remember the name of the magician from the turn of the century who included plate waltzing in his act, there are photos of him waltzing bowls up a spiral ramp - which is not something I've ever seen performed!

# by Little Paul, Parent

I'm such a dullard.

John Nevil Maskelyne, his plates and ramp can be seen on this poster http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/evanion/Record.aspx?EvanID=024-000000341&ImageIndex=0 (click the image for bigger)

There's a brief video of his plate waltzing here http://youtu.be/-dZGPvBJleE - I recognise the footage, it's reconstructed from a scan of a book which includes a photographic plate that has 2 strips of film down the sides.

Interesting chap Maskelyne. He was one of the first magicians to debunk psychic phenomena - and he invented the door lock for London toilets which required the insertion of a penny coin to open the door.

Which is the origin of the euphemism to "spend a penny"

# by Little Paul, Parent

I thought you were going to mention Signor Blitz who was a magician and juggler in the 19th century (and was possibly the first ventriloquist to use a dummy) - he was so well known that it was worth writing a waltz, slapping his name on it and selling sheet music - http://www.crownantiques.com/item.cgi?item_id=15710 - with a picture of the plate waltzing at the top.

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

Coo! I recognise the name in conjunction with ventriloquism, but was unaware of his plate waltzing :)

# by Little Paul, Parent

It's good to know that you read and absorbed the plate section that i wrote on trickswithhats.org ;-)
I once read on the internet somewhere (so it must be true) that there were half a dozen people (mis)using the Blitz name, while he was still working, to cash in on his success! I think one of the fakes even got a New York Times obituary, despite the real guy dying several years before...
Cheers
-Mike

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

I can't be expected to remember everything I hosted on the Internet a thousand years ago :P

# by Little Paul, Parent

Shock! TWH is no more. When did that happen? Is it mirrored somewhere?

# by The Void, Parent

A couple of months back, a series of events (which I'm deeply annoyed about) led to me losing control of the domain name, it's currently being squatted by a rather dubious looking firm who seem to want an astonishing amount of cash to get it back.

An amount of cash Mike and I are not willing to stump up to re-gain control of a site that hadn't had any meaningful updates in almost a decade :/

The content is available on archive.org, and I've got a vague plan to spin up a youtube channel to re-host all the videos in one place in an attempt to make some of it available again - although I've not quite got around to sorting that out yet.

# by Little Paul, Parent

Oh, that sounds like a real PITA. :-(
Well, we'd be happy to see a new JTV user appear, should you get around to rehosting.

Hmmm. I might email you about that....

# by The Void, Parent

I'd like to refute the claims of my demise.

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Do you have any evidence to back up your confution? Pi charts and the like?

# by Mïark, Parent

I really enjoyed this lovely ball spinning act found in the related videos o one of these:

http://youtu.be/Y7pUlJc5Kpw

He makes it look very easy!

Also whenever I see a rack of plate spinning poles I wonder whether I'm about to see a plate spinning act or a dog agility demonstration. Has anyone ever combined the two?

# by Orinoco, Parent

Hi everyone,
I´m new here. I´m Juli from Germany. I have been juggling for some time, though I´m getting more interested in the online community recently. I´m trying to get 5 clubs to work but mostly I´m interested in passing and takeouts. Won´t make it to the BJC (as last year and the years before) but will be at ejc for sure.

# by JIUJuli,

Hi JIUJuli

Welcome to the Edge, it is good to see more people interested in passing and takeouts, sorry to hear you won't be at BJC this year.

# by Mïark, Parent

yeah, thx. I guess that means it will be Limoncello at ejc Bruneck (as the Berlin convention won´t take place this year)...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Oops! in my anglocentric mindset I misread BJC as British Juggling Convention rather than Berlin JugglingConvention. Yes, it is quite sad that Berlin isn't happening this year as it is one my favourite juggling conventions.

Are you looking forward to the homemade Limoncello at Bruneck?

# by Mïark, Parent

Oh no, that´s fine. I was planning to come to BJC this year but can´t make it. As Berlin is not taking place, we´ll next see at ejc. The homemade Limoncello is very good. I added a lot less sugar so it´s not so sweet. I can drink it without Bitter Lemon, now. And I´ll bring it to ejc although I feel stupid, bringing Limoncello to Italy.

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Hi Juli, welcome to the Edge.

I'd normally ask about your juggling, but now that I know what Limoncello is I'm more interested in that. Do you have a recipe?

# by Orinoco, Parent

Sure do. Will be tested by Italians in a blind, controlled study on Friday. If it´s any good I´ll post it. If not, we can talk juggling...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Oh... tell me more about this study design.... if anyone is interested in this type of thing it's one of the interesting parts of my job [setting up randomisation schemes for clinical trials!]

# by Dee, Parent

Wow, then, I expect you can help me, Dee!
As I´m usually working in cell-based assays I´m purely pre-clinic.
I´m using Limoncello from a German supermarket and Limoncello of Novella´s favorite brand from Italy as controls.
I was thinking to do double blind, so I´d let a colleague who does not drink set up 3 same plates with shot glasses of Limoncello on same color napkins, labelled under the plate. Randomisation for 3 samples? I guess that would be up to that colleague...is there a strategy for 3? Maybe I should let him offer each sample twice, that´d make it 6 samples and more options? Anyway, double blind should remove any bias and I told only you jugglers that I myself consider the home-made Limoncello very good because it is not too sweet. My colleagues did not get any information beforehand. As to the number of test persons, I´ll have to wait who shows up on friday - scientists always have some more work to do. I was planning to let each of them make a list which they liked best, second best and least with 1 keyword as to the reason for their decision (like: too sweet).
So, what do you think of this study design?

# by JIUJuli, Parent

So, 6 six or more shots per test subject, a sample size unlikely to provide conclusive results, and the very great risk of alcohol-skewed data? Yep, that sounds like any normal Friday night at a juggling convention! Bring it on.

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

As mentioned, you need to think  about the effects of alcohol consumption on the taste buds - so I would think about some "drink" scales such as "overall flavour", "sweetness", and "acidity" [and whatever else you may want to consider when comparing the drinks].

As alcohol is involved, I'd keep the questions simple:
For example:
Rank the samples on the colour (if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that).
now
Rank the samples on the sweetness [not how much they like the sweetness level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
now
Rank the samples on the acidity [not how much they like the acidity level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
now
Rank the samples on the initial flavour if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.

From this you may be able to conclude that your subjects prefer a "middle level of sweetness"

If you were doing a scoring rather than a ranking system you could leave more of a space between sampling and also consider the aftertaste of each, but I wouldn't go that far here.  When working on my PhD (in a food research institute) I experienced lots of taste-testing under red-light conditions [so that we couldn't judge the colour of what we were trying out!].  Managing the colour by using white napkins underneath the drinks is an easier way - especially because you do want to think about the colour in this instance.

Good luck and enjoy the tasting.

# by Dee, Parent

It's not science unless someone is wearing a lab coat

# by Little Paul, Parent

Results of Limoncello tasting and winning recipes
It certainly was not science as we did it outside of the lab - so no one wore lab coats!
Summary:
A test group of 9 people (5F, 4M) tested 4 different recipes of Limoncello.
Favorite was #1, ranked best by 7 out of 9 testers and second best by 1/9.
Second favorite was #2, ranked favorite by 1/9 and second by 5 out of 9 tasters.
Color of Limoncello is not important, as #2 had lowest score on good color for 9/9 testers and still it ranked second in overall favorite.
Acidity is negative in Limoncello, as winning samples on overall favorite (#1 & #2) scored medium to low on acidity.
Medium to high sweetness is preferred as the favorite sample (#1) is second on sweetness whereas the second favorite (#2) is ranked as sweetest.

Recipe #1
Peel the yellow skin off 4 lemons. Be careful not to include the white skin as this will give a bitter taste.
Add the lemon skin to 500ml of 96% ethanol and incubate at room temperature for 10 days.
Heat 1.5L of tap water and dissolve 300g sugar. Let cool.
Pour the lemon ethanol through a fine mesh.
Mix lemon ethanol and sugared water at v/v ratio of 1:3 to obtain < 2L of >32% alc. Limoncello.
Store and serve at -20°C.


Recipe #2
Enter German supermarket
Find "Limoncé"
Go to register before 10pm (after 10pm, no alcohol may be sold)
Pay ~ 8€
Store at room temperature and serve at -20°C.

There are leftovers...

# by JIUJuli, Parent

http://youtu.be/BSUMBBFjxrY

Certified science.

# by Chris, Parent

A German supermarket open after 8pm... so the rumours are true that they exist outside of Karlsruhe?

Do you have any graphs? I'm pretty sure that a pie chart would be the best way to record* the data**.


* record = annoy
** data = statistician

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Sounds delivious, but on the serving temperature is that correct? Strikes me as rather cold.

# by Orinoco, Parent

@ Tom:
Yes, outside of Bavaria, everything is possible.
If I get another break from work, I´ll make the worst worst 3D rainbow colored graph and bring it together with the Limoncello on Saturday. Otherwise I try to stay away from excel.
Good luck in the exams!

@ Orinoco:
4°C and then on ice tastes ok but the Italians in the testing group were adamant about -20°C being THE ONLY temperature.

...and now I´m off to prepare a workshop on an ambidexterous passing pattern for 3 people - 'La vache qui rit'!

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Welcome!
If any of the lemoncello is left over after Friday and you urgently need to get rid of it before the end of the month... then I might know someone who could help.

# by ^Tom_, Parent

Hi Juli
I'm new here too. Passing is great!

# by Maria, Parent

Hi Maria,
greetings to Sweden!

# by JIUJuli, Parent

Just curious. Did you read that I'm from Sweden, or did you figure it out some other way?

# by Maria, Parent

The one on the right is my favourite, I shall call him Ewan.

http://i.imgur.com/vIL8FJM.gif

# by Cedric Lackpot,

... and it's better with sound :-

http://youtu.be/YE8jU6Q7v8c

Turns out it's an actual thing!!

Done wrong, yay, huzzah! :-

http://youtu.be/yr0FPdWuno8

Done right, boo, hiss :-

http://youtu.be/xnH1M9f5WjI

# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Hahahaha! Win!

*packs shovel and hardhat for BJC*

# by Little Paul, Parent

Now how do you suppose this was done?

You can ponder the question while you watch....

http://youtu.be/0FeA2XNNZW0

# by emilyw,

Ha! Very nice

# by Mike Armstrong, Parent

Really well.

# by The Void, Parent

Hah, I would have never guessed that!! Super cool!

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

I did not expect that! Very nicely done.

Red Bull are a fantastic film production company.

# by Orinoco, Parent

4! :D

# by Little Paul, Parent

I don't want to be a snob...but it was done exactly how I thought it was done.
On another note, that guy is so boring. The least amount of style I've seen in a freerunner in a while..although maybe being on a train gave him like artistic liberty.

# by Norbi, Parent

I'm with Norbi. For all the production work they put in, you'd think they could spend it on someone with any amount of any style. What is he even wearing? Also, you'd think they could have filmed it in good lighting conditions. I got bored and started skipping forward. Juliane guessed it was on a train, but I wasn't even sure what the question was. Unfortunately it didn't come out like a retro video, but badly done green screen work. And that's weird, because it seems like it was all done live.

# by lukeburrage, Parent

Yep, I agree with both of you. The only cool thing for me was being surprised at the end (I would have answered 'huge green screen'), but the guy is boring and the light is weird.
I guess it is also kinda harder to make a cool video if you film everything from the same perspective.

It must be fun to create though :)

# by Daniel Simu, Parent

Jaded old farts the lot of you :-)

I was just happy with the surprise train.

# by emilyw, Parent

<twitch>

<shudder>

<fidget>

It's. Not. A. Bloody. Train! It's a locomotive, or an engine if you must be vulgar and uncouth. Calling it a train is like calling a club a bowling pin.

Weirdly, I think I was looking at that loco on YouTube a couple of days ago but I can't find it now. There's a film of a preservation yard with a collection of locomotives around a turntable where they have one of those quintessentially German locos under steam.




# by Cedric Lackpot, Parent

Surely the combination of an engine and a big long thing with stuff on it that moves along tracks is called .... A TRAIN.

TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.

# by emilyw, Parent

What emily said, the reveal of the loco pulling the rolling stock with the platform on it inherently reveals the train.

Had the loco not been coupled to any rolling stock at all, I would have agreed whole heartedly with the pedantic rant :)

# by Little Paul, Parent

Come on now, do the locomotive ...

Everybody's doing it ...

# by Kelhoon, Parent

View older threads

Subscribe to Small Talk via RSS 1 article per branch (updated every 24 hours) 1 article per post