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Do you stretch before you juggle?
What are some stretches you do before/during a practice? Or do you not bother?
What about warming up? Do you work up to your harder tricks in practice by doing easier ones first, or do you just go for it?
I hurt my neck practicing recently so I thought I'd ask these questions.
Some people will tell you to stretch before practice and some people will tell you not to. There's no scientific evidence to suggest that stretching before practice can help to prevent injury, and it may actually make injury more likely, so I don't bother. If I do stretching for flexibility I do it at other times. Warming up is a good idea and I should probably do it more. Normally I'll start with a longish run of a medium number of objects and throw high and low. I'll often start with some balancing as well to find my center. Other than that I try not to have the same routine per session and try to mix it up as much as possible so that I'm not training on auto-pilot.
Stretching and warmup for injury prevention?
It's been a while since I last talked to physiomonkey/monkeyjuggler about this, but I doubt the situation has changed all that much in the last couple of years. I can't be bothered to go rummaging in medical journals to check though. As I understand it the situation is:
There is no evidence in the published medical literature that shows a positive effect on injury prevention from pre-exercise warmups or stretching.
However, there is some evidence that stretching is generally good for injury prevention, but it doesn't matter if you do it before or after exercise, or the next day. If you include stretching in your general fitness regime there are benefits.
Warmups are good for getting your mind into the right place to perform the exercise you're about to do, and for waking yourself up getting in the mood or whatever. Beyond that you're expending energy on your warmup which could be better spent on the exercise you're working on.
I would suggest that if you've hurt your neck while practising, you might want to work out what you did that caused the injury and spend time addressing that rather than warming up :) eg, how's your posture?
 I'm not a qualified medical professional, but he is and he's done far more reading on this particular issue than I ever will so I'm willing to trust his opinion. I hope I'm not misrepresenting it. I thought he was on The Edge, but I can't find him in the users list.
I used to stretch/warmup before running, or before a gym session. Since talking to physiomonkey about it I stopped bothering. I now do some generaly stretching a couple of times a week instead. My injury rate hasn't changed all that much. On a cold day at the gym, I'll do some cardio to get my heart rate up and kick my poor circulation into life, but that's more about being comfortable than it is about injury prevention :)
If the ambient temperature is cold it definitely helps to warm up, both for performance and for injury avoidance. Warming up will raise your muscle temperature which will increase the nerve conduction velocity which will let you move faster. It will also raise your skin temperature which will make your skin more flexible and less likely to be damaged by collision with a club or ring (probably doesn't matter with beanbags). Glenn Gould (pianist) was known to soak his hands in warm water before performing.
It also helps to warm up your props eg clubs and rings as they are less elastic when cold and hurt more if they hit you or you catch them badly.
I can definitely see that, and definitely appreciate you adding some scientific insight. I agree. Even the effect of the cold on your hands alone can be huge. If I'm outside in anywhere near sub-zero temperatures, my hands can hardly feel to catch at all.
I'm also not qualified ... to do bugger all really. Money back if not completely satisfied!
IIRC Al's original standpoint that warm ups *for injury prevention* was mostly unsubstantiated, but IIRC there has since been some evidence to support the idea, and perhaps his position has warmed a little. What does seem to be true (and I think LP has mostly already covered this) is that warming up (aka exercise) in general will make you fitter and will therefore protect you somewhat against injury; it just won't make a lot of difference in the specific instance, and indeed there is a little evidence to suggest that it may even make you slightly more vulnerable.
Please notice that I've qualified my statements about evidence with deliberately vague modifiers - scientifically, it's a debate that has yet to be concluded. Go ahead and cherry pick the evidence if you wish; reality will not follow suit.
TL;DR Warm up, go on, it's good for you! Just don't go thinking it'll make any immediate difference to your likelihood of injury, that's not really where the benefits lie.
I do not do designated stretches before juggling.
As a warm-up, I go through patterns with more movement than my usual ones. First, I juggle with my hands high, low, and outside (in rapid combination, not focussing on one, then moving to another). Then, I cycle through backcrosses to behind the head (bx bx bx for many reps, bx bx bth for many reps, bx bth bth for many reps, bth bth bth for many reps). This helps me get my joints and muscles warm (especially neck!), and has the benefit of getting me to practise things I want to be very solid every practise.
I have two types of hard tricks: precision-demanding (e.g. blind behind the head) and handspeed/physically fatiguing (e.g. multiple orbits, attempts at 9b flashes). I find warming up helps my performance on both of these fronts.
One strange thing that I've noticed is that my 7b is most solid if I've done some rock climbing about 3-4 hours prior, and eaten a huge meal ~3 hours prior.
That's what I think I hurt myself on... BTH! I really think I jerk my neck too hard the side when I'm looking either way. I can see the merits of just doing this trick blind(Like how Gustaf does it). What do you think?
And that's interesting about the 7 ball pattern. I don't rock climb, but I honestly will try to time that meal out in the future. On a related note, I hate practicing on an empty stomach.
I found that I learned bth at a slow enough rate for my neck to strengthen at I went. At this point, my neck is very strong, and when someone recorded me doing an endruance run of over 3 minutes at IJA 2013, it didn't particularly hurt.
I LOVE blind behind the head. I practise for quite a while, and finally got a qualify of it a couple years ago...the day before Gustaf put out Sorry won't cut it. For those under 24 hours, I thought I was pretty hot stuff!
I've gotten a little better at it:
(I'm pretty sure it's a tad easier in reverse cascade than cascade)
DAMN you have skills! Do you have any tips? My BTH (while looking!) is going very slowly. I can now flash it out of a cascade, loop one ball back there continuously, and do maybe 3-4 right hand bths consecutively. That's my skillset for that trick. And like you, I want it to be something that I am super solid at.
I feel like one of my biggest problems when I try to run it is that I tend to throw them over my head instead of behind it. Too high, basically.
What's your favourite genus of penguin?
As you may have guessed we now have a #NewFeature that allows you to post simple polls. To start a poll create a new thread, select "Set this thread as a competition" & set the competition type to "Poll". Options are specified as list items in your post which are entered in different ways depending on which composition method you have selected.
You can create your list of options manually:
Or click the <ol> or <ul> tags in the list of allowed tags which will walk you through creating a list one option at a time.
Type in your first option on a new line, click the "Insert ordered list" or "Insert unordered list" button (5th & 6th buttons), press enter, type your next option, press enter etc..
Create an ordered list by starting each line with a number followed by a . eg.
1. option 1
2. option 2
3. option 3
...or create an unordered list starting each line with either a *, + or - eg:
* option 1
* option 2
* option 3
Cast your vote by clicking your preferred option, a green tick will show you which option you have voted for. You can change your vote at any time while the poll is open.
At the end of the poll's duration period Marvin will tot up the votes & post the results.
How do you retract your vote if you later decide you don't want to vote for any of the choices on offer?
What about Pinguinus, the genus that gave us the penguin name‽
Typical Southern bias, only list the southern penguins - no mention of the northern ones.
A couple of things :-
* Votes should be toggleable, so I can rescind a vote as well as reposition it. In the picture I have voted for Eudyptula and can no longer vote for nothing.
* The "Select option to vote, Previous unread, Next unread" is bloody confusing - Previous unread and Next unread are not types of penguin!
Also, why don't Imgur links embed?
It's a shame img tags aren't in the list of html allowed. Otherwise we could just use http://www.palmnet.me.uk/minipolls
Adding image tags around a url for those who want them is considerably cleaner & easier than extracting a url & fixing mangled image tags from user input!
1. Votes are now toggleable.
2. Yeah, that shouldn't happen. Now sorted.
That imgur link is to a page rather than an image. Images will embed if you use the direct link (2nd option down in the list of embed codes).
I've heard they taste very fishy but have not cooked one myself so I couldn't state a preference.
Have been meaning to ask my game man about squirrels as I prefer to cook non indigenous or pest species such as muntjack deer or rabbits.
Because that would not show up as a new post? Thereby not bringing the close/results to people's attention.
Of course, a first-post-replacement as well as a new results post would work fine, IMO.
Mostly wot Void said, but also I thought it would help the thread tell a story: question is asked first, people discuss the question, results are posted, then people discuss results.
Also if the reader didn't participate in the poll while it was active having the results in a separate post (which more often than not will be off the screen) gives the reader the chance to guess at the results or still make a choice without being influenced by the results. There is a link straight from the OP to the results for those that don't want to read through the thread.
Juggling convention raffles:
Can we all just agree we are happy to pay £1 extra on the door so that no one ever has to sit through a juggling convention raffle ever again.
Surely no one has ever won anything they actually wanted and the price of the day ticket is usually irrelevant compared to the cost of getting to the actual convention itself.
...whose previous raffle wins include: cheap plastic diablo with crappy wooden handsticks, mid length staff occasionally used still to hang my washing from, floppy pink and purple hat.
Ha. It's simply not a thing at conventions outside of the UK, from what I've found. I don't remember the last convention raffle I've sat through, and I don't miss it at all!
My only fond memories of juggling convention raffles, was the chocfest cruit set
I wonder what happened to it
Hahahaha! By all means have a raffle, just don't make people feel they have an obligation to enter & don't hold the draw during the show. Raffle draws are a huge bore for a lot of people. Perhaps combine the draw with the juggling games, make the winner of each game draw a ticket.
It's been a long time since I bought a raffle ticket. As an extra source of income I really like the BYJOTY drop count sweepstake which I will always enter. This may be a bit too cynical for a gala show, but I think it works for BYJOTY because as well as providing a nice prize fund incentive the result also works as a basic metric for how well the current crop of performers is doing.
The original idea for the drop count sweepstake was to raise money for the best trick prize. Half to the winner of the best trick, half to the winner of the sweepstake. It didn't originate as any income source for the convention.
Oh no, but for another convention it could be a source of income that I think would be far less disruptive than a raffle draw. However, for a gala show it could just feel wrong.
Camvention will not have a raffle next year. I've also noticed foreigners being rather baffled by raffles, and I can't really defend them.
I've won some great stuff at convention raffles. The time to do the draw is at the end of the games, though, when people who haven't entered can wander off and do something else. During the show after an over-long interval is very much *not* the time to do it.
As a convention-goer I despise raffles and I will not enter for fear of accidentally winning a prize, which would probably be a VHS tape about poi. Sometimes I drop some money in the jar anyway and just make sure I don't get a ticket.
I observe that we charged £8 on the door for a one-day convention with a show in 1998, which inflation-adjusted is now £12 or £13. Door prices have not been keeping up.
Oh yes & that's the very nature of raffles, prizes are won in descending order of quality so by design they just get worse!
Can I also give potential raffle organisers a hint: The joke where you start the announcement with, "It's a blue ticket…" when there's only one colour? That's been done.
Some people get really funny about raffles.
Whenever I've had to do a draw, I've gone with the "draw the numbers as quick as possible, people can collect the tat in their own time" but more than once I've had complaints from people who expect me to wait for them to amble up and collect their spinning plate before drawing the next number. Or worse, expecting to be able to draw the next ticket themselves *sigh*
People also got really shirty about me pulling out fistfuls of tickets and declaring them all losers. As if doing that makes any bloody difference.
The easiest way to avoid all this tedium and moaning is to not bother with a raffle. If you really must dispose of tat in exchange for extra convention funds, go for an auction and hold it during the interval.
I agree that it makes no difference, but why would you draw and declare a bunch of tickets losers? I get the badassery component of it, but I feel like in many situations it would bring the vibe down instead of up. (I like your idea actually, I promote it) but people suck and that's why it might not work.
The nature of raffles is that there is a perverse incentive for the donors of prizes to unload things that nobody would pay good money for, but that will still take up space in the van on the way back.
The nature of shows is that no matter how carefully one may plan the running order so as to achieve a desired effect in the minds of the audience, people will still want to stuff it all up by inserting a long boring raffle in the middle.
I did once attend a show that was followed by a powerpoint presentation. I don't recommend that either.
Now seems like an appropriate time to mention that in my time involved with running it, the Oxford Juggling Convention has never had a raffle (and never will.) If people want a novelty prize they're invited to participate in the 'who can bring me the best crustacean based lunch on the day' competition but in 2 years there have been no participants. This does probably give you better odds of winning something than you get when you participate in other conventions' raffles
On that note, 30th May this year will be the Oxford Crayfish Juggling Convention and I look forward to seeing many of you there.
Are you serious? I work at Red Lobster and would DEMOLISH that competition. What's my prize?
I'm completely serious and though the first year the mystery prize was unclaimed and would perhaps have been unappreciated, this year the prize will be better than ever before. I welcome your submission!
I would question the freshness of a crustacean based dish delivered from the US to Oxford.
I would question the freshness of the prize that has been unclaimed for a year or more.
What kind of junky raffles are they running over there?
The Waterloo fest I just got back from usually runs a raffle. I've won a standard kendama, a set of PX3 clubs, a couple sets of decent beanbags, and surely things I've forgotten now...in 7 years of raffles there, I've only lost value once. Most years the grand prize is a unicycle (thanks, Bedford Unicycles!).
At others fests, I've won Gballz and Drop Props (another nice kind of juggling bag, made in Rochester). I use both of those sets of balls to this day. Those two were Chinese auctions (don't be fooled by the name, it's really a raffle).
I certainly agree that winners shouldn't be announced anywhere that everyone is required to be.
I have an autographed Luftgarden DVD by Michael Karas... Great raffle win! The only juggling raffle I've ever been in. So boo you!
MKJC has a raffle. Last year without the raffle we wouldn't have broken even. The prizes are either donated by the committee or the traders. None of the committee have ever donated rubbish. Also the raffle is timetabled into the running order and for the last 3 years the show has finished pretty much on time (the year before had Steve Rawlings as the final act, he was asked to do 15 minutes and did 50+, not many complained).
It is easy to say just add a pound to the ticket price. For individuals that isn't a problem. For families where the cost gets multiplied it can be more of a problem. MKJC has always tried to be understanding about families and e.g. not charge for under 12s but the costs still mount and plenty of people choose not to buy a raffle ticket.
I still think juggling conventions are under priced and price isn't a real differentiator in whether people attend or otherwise. For me, getting to any convention costs about a tenner and I usually spend another tenner at least on food, drink or whatever. An extra pound on the gates is minimal in comparison. I agree for families costs mount and child / family discounts where possible should be encouraged and maybe my financial position isn't really reflective of the juggling community, but...
...I just really really hate raffles!
When a 20 minute interval spreads to half an hour followed by a 20 minute calamitous raffle interspersed with unclaimed tickets and people winning free entrance to conventions that they definitely won't go it really just kills the mood for the rest of the show. Coupled with this when you have a 3 hour drive home and people have last trains to catch the absence of a raffle might actually enhance the popularity of a convention and make people more likely to attend in the first place, no?
In the four years I was involved with running BoB, we had two raffles, and then two tombolas.
I introduced the idea of a tombola as we still needed the income, but raffles kill the show vibe (and people who come just for the day mess things up).
It was an great success (in my opinion). The tombolas made twice as much money as the raffles had (I think because if people don't win the first time, they are more inclined to buy another ticket, which can't really happen with the raffle). And loads of people gave me positive feedback about how much they enjoyed it.
So I'd suggest to convention organisers, if you need to raise funds through prizes, try a tombola instead of a raffle. You may well find that you make more money, and the participants have more fun :-)
So, as a long time convention organiser this got me thinking - do we really need to get rid of the raffle at Lestival? So many negative opinions and low-level gripes and grumbles - it was almost as if a thread complaining about something someone didn't much care for, brought all the other nay-sayers crawling out of the woodwork!
And then I remembered how little I care for public games and parades, and all the times I've castigated those stupid enough to indulge themselves in them, and all the well-rounded and agreeably reasoned arguments I've made against them, sometimes in the teeth of considerable opp ..... no, wait a minute, that never happened, I have never lobbied against those things. Moaned about them, for sure, but who on earth would argue against people enjoying things just because I don't? I just don't partake of that which does not appeal to me - simple.
So, because of the appalling way that raffles can drag, the Lestival draw has always been conducted on the principal of 'breakneck speed isn't fast enough!' and we try to rush insanely fast, because we know that lots of people like prizes, but far fewer enjoy the process of distributing them.
The alternative would be to add £1 to the ticket price. Whilst we're at it, could we add another £1 to take away the parade? And another £1 to remove the games? I suck at numbers juggling so perhaps that should be £2 if the games we cancel would've had a lot of numbers endurance rounds. Then lets cheerfully pay up another £1 to get rid of all the poimanglers - I'd do this for free, but one has to be consistent, of course. And another £1 to get rid of endless rounds of gladiators. And one more £1 to lose those stupid fucking jokey convention passes that no-one likes.
And do you know what we would have with the stripped down format and the doubled ticket price? The London Convention, that's what.
And that's why this was an initially attractive but ultimately flawed idea - if you really want to get rid of raffles then do it by addition not subtraction, find something much better to supplant raffles such that the people who do like them have something even better in their place. If that's too much effort then just avoid the bloody raffle, heckle the insane length of some of them, and in the meantime cheerfully indulge other people's enjoyment.
And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.
PS I have won raffle prizes that I really, really wanted, the biggest thing being the set of three juggling rubber chickens - I really put somebody out because I refused, there and then, to swap them for something else much nicer or even take money for them. So I applaud the quality of your rant, James, but I dispute the sentiments.
 Well, apart from all of bonkers fundamentalist Christianity whining about gay marriage as if they owned marriage in the first place, and were being forced to be gay, marry a gay, and be gay married. And probably a bajillion other examples as well.
 Turns out some people do like convention passes. This kind of argument occurs all the time and it's some sort of an appeal to a majority which is passed off as an appeal to all. So when you say "Can we all agree ..." the answer, from some at least, will surely be no.
 I kid, I kid. It was just a cheap joke ... much like the London Convention!
The difference is if the raffle is during the show, then there is not the same option to just not watch it (assuming you wish to see the show) - the games can be indulged in by everyone who wants to watch/partake and ignored by everyone else. I doubt people would be complaining if it was done during the day/after the show when anyone who wasn't interested could leave.
I always appreciate raffles that actually go fast, although quite a few claim that they will and are anything but.
I did actually enjoy the raffle at Chocfest this year, mainly due to Tiff being a bit mad during it and making it entertaining. It's certainly possible if the effort is put into it - but I feel sometimes it is put in because it's expected.
The "even better" thing could be a lawn, big enough for all us grumbly types to go sit on it with our tea/beer and shout for people who like raffles to vacate our small but verdant premises.
> And this really got me thinking about some moaning that has been going on over at /r/juggling with various po-faced types complaining that they actually have to choose whether to open a link, all on their own, without some hidden modesty fairy to protect their sensibilities from offence! I've had to fight quite hard to get people to curate their own experience there and the battle is far from won.
hmmf, it's considered common courtesy among those I know to give people a heads up when sending them video content that might be NSFW or not to be watched during dinner or could be upsetting or whatever.
This is perhaps a cultural difference and it doesn't really surprise me that Reddit is on the other side of it.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, I only input text, no links or videos. This is what I see (http://imgur.com/n1vqdLt), is something different from your end?
I was replying to Jay's text that you quoted, but got confused and thought you wrote it.
Well lets be clear, my general grumpiness doesn't just end at raffles. Like you Jay, I also don't like the public games or parades but these are easily avoidable whereas a mid show raffle isn't.
I appreciate what you and others have said though. Some convention raffles aren't so painful and supplementation is a good alternative. As long as some people get some joy out of raffles somewhere, somehow, then I'm sure I can tolerate them quietly in future (not sure cheerful indulgence might be the term I would apply here - but certainly not open disdain).
P.s. Whilst I do dislike raffles I do like the little passes.
A new group attempting to formalise the Jugglermail network recently popped up on FB. Not sure I agree with that but anyway...
I was asked to produce a map of jugglers but fortunately someone else set up a Google map so they can deal with holding personal data such as the location of a load of people's homes & the route's they regularly travel. I did say I could use Edge event attendance data to plan routes from one user to another & well, this happened:
Jugglermail route finder.
Yeah... that was the reason I invited you to the group. That way it would be a little bit more anonymous... but you know jugglers! If I didn't have so many other projects lined up I would have had a crack at it, some kind of 3 dimensional tsp problem..
I've left that group now as 1, I'm not in a position to actually help! 2 I don't want to know what people are transporting or where. Not my business.
location of a load of people's homes
Urgh. Why are people stupid.
Please tell me it's opt in, any that they aren't doing anything stupidly offensive like adding "people they know" to the map.
It's opt in, I don't know if anyone is adding other people, but it can be edited by anyone.
Opt in huh? I wonder what kind soul opted me in without so much as a by your leave? 'Cos it sure as fuck wasn't me.
Oh, the Google map is opt in but the rest of Facebook is, well, Facebook.
Fed up with your friends adding you to groups? Add them to something like this group (which is nicer than some of the groups you could add them to if you used your imagination).
Fairly sure I saw that Dave Jellybean opted you in like he did me.
Also it seemed people were saying thinks like I live in Bristol and regularly travel to London rather than I live at 7, Stupid Street, Bristol and will be away from my house on these dates.
Bounce juggling... I want to start practicing it. I have lacrosse balls (there is no way in hell I can afford silicones) and want to know...
What type of surface should I buy to put over my carpet to practice? A sheet of... marble? What?
Yes, a sheet of stone of some kind is common. Max oddball has one in his Brighton shop for demonstrations. Anything that won't absorb energy so that all energy is returned to the ball. Something flat and hard that won't bend. The slate normally used for pool/snooker tables might be good.
I've not used lacrosse balls. All I know is that Bobby May used them, so they're probably ok. In the UK we have cheap bounce balls made of rubber. Like these.
You could try asking a tombstone maker whether they have any spelling mistakes you could relieve them of.
You'll find much greater amounts of seconds at kitchen worktop suppliers. Unfortunately it will still be eye-wateringly expensive. Marble, granite, and the like are just plain expensive, especially for the rather large pieces that are ideal for bouncing. And synthetic alternatives aren't cheap either.
For a beginner you will need :-
So, for someone who already said they can't afford sillies and is willing to compromise (and is prepared to have a practice slab which will never, ever move) you could try finding an old 3'x2' council paving slab and coating it with something - Hammerite, a thin layer of self-levelling compound, whatever, just so long as it is really well bonded to the slab, and remains flat. Some of those bastards weigh 70kg or more though.
For not a huge amount of money, you can now buy very large ceramic tiles (18" square) On their own they're not much use as they're too thin, however they would be fine if bonded to a concrete paving slab
I managed to find a pretty cheap patio slab that was pretty good from my local B&Q hardware shop. Most of them were rubbish as the surface wasn't smooth and some of them were a bit too soft to get any decent bounce, but eventually I got one that was pretty good (if a little noisy) so long as you could find a flat surface to place it on.
The looks from the staff as I got the slabs out one by one and bounced rubber balls on them was rather interesting!
I would recommend lacrosse balls on concrete sidewalk to get started quick and cheap. If there is grass or sand around, it will catch errant balls. Moving up from there, Play G-Force balls from Renegade have better rebound to facilitate bounce juggling. Medium density fiber board or porcelain are not too expensive. Polished concrete garage floors are nice too. Bouncing inside never worked for me. It is loud and carpets wreck rebound. For top quality and price there is silicone and marble. Play around with it, let us know how it goes.
Not sure where you live, but some people use tennis courts to practice on. Not feasible in Canada right now, as snow kind of muffles the bounce.
How about this place http://davenportsmagickingdom.co.uk as a Bungay Balls Up day trip? It's about an hours drive from the farm. Apparently the family have been performing and trading in magic since the 1890's.
Blimey Monte, I'm amazed someone of your, um, distinguished vintage hasn't heard of Davenports before. I think I bought my first ever pack of modelling balloons from them when they had a shop -weirdly - in pedestrian tunnels of Charing Cross underground station, back in the late 80s. As purveyors of magic stuff they had a fearsome reputation, and yes, they have been around forever.
Call a spade a spade. Old is the word you're looking for.So has everyone been to the museum then? Not being particularly into magic I had not heard of the place till I met the chef a few weeks ago.Looks like an interesting place to visit though. Personally I would rather visit Sutton Hoo or Caister Castle but Davenports is probably better for Jugglers.
I didn't become aware of Davenports until very recently either, Monte, despite living in Norfolk. And that was only because the people that run it also do childrens' parties, and juggle a bit. After that, my daughter went to Davenports with her grandparents and said it was great - I'm looking forward to going sometime.
Sutton Hoo has had a fair bit of money thrown at it by the National Trust lately. There's a decent museum, including replicas of the treasures, and a nice, bright, café. The actual burial site is, to my mind, a bit dull unless you are very into archaeology. There's a nice enough walk around the site. The best bit for us was meeting a splendidly attired King Raedwald, complete with magnificent gilded helm, dirk and spear. Then later spotting him in the visitors centre, filling out an incident form having cut his finger...
If you all want a change of seaside trip from Southwold, and are prepared to travel a bit further, I'd recommend North Norfolk, especially Wells - the beach walk to Holkham and back is fabulous.
They're still trading in Charing Cross underground. I've only been in there twice, both were wonderful visits, one because I met Jerry Sadowitz in there (who I recognised at the time) and one because I met Pat Page (who I didn't recognise... until I was on the train home)- both are *wonderful* closeup workers, and I've got books by both which contain material so far above my capabilities that reading them was largely an academic exercise.
Both were fun to meet, although Pat isn't anywhere near as offensive and miserable as Jerry... but then who is? :D
[VIDEO] Klown Karma
Hi people. Yohann (of Les Beaux Frères) and I wrote a short series of sketches, inspired by the idea of a clown who couldn't get away from being a clown. The music was then composed for each episode, by Who are you.
For now it's just 5 episodes, as a sort of experiment, but if it gets some attention then we already have ideas for a whole bunch more.
They'll be coming out each Monday, with the first one right here:
This got reported on /r/juggling. Somebody be butthurtin' I think. Have you sent it to Jason Garfield?
I frequent quite a few subreddits, and they all seem to share the same traite. That is to post something ever so slightly off-topic, or possibly previously posted/asked, and get downvoted into oblivion.
For SOME odd reason, I expected jugglers to be different. I've learnt my lesson now, /r/juggling is not a place for jugglers to hang out and chat about whatever...that's what the Edge is for :-)
To be fair Norbi, /r/juggling is almost entirely serene and forgiving, unlike the vast wasteland of mean-spirited subs that comprise so many of the backwaters of reddit. Keep on posting there if you please, one report in a blue moon ain't gonna make a whit of difference.
Plate spinning poles
I got asked to do a plate spinning act this summer. I have never done any plate spinning in my life, but it sounds like a fun challenge.
Now I wonder, does anyone here have any experience with building plate spinning poles? I need to find out how to connect those poles properly to a table so that it can wobble just enough, if you have tips or ideas they would be very welcome.
And since you've all shown such cool handstand videos: What is the best plate spinning act you can think of?
I'll start with one I like, though there isn't much spinning in it ;)
Last time I went to the Nederlands JongleerFestival I went to a workshop with Amazing Marcel who was showing how to spin china plates on fixed poles. I don't know if he was the best plate spinner in the Netherlands, but he definitely told everyone he was amazing.
I like David Burlet
This Jon Anton video was posted the other day
For me it seems the thing about plate spinning acts is that they're as much about what you do in between spinning the plates. The tray/glass/spoon thing seems popular, but there's a lot else you can put in there.
Plate waltzing is a good one too, though I've never made any progress with it
No idea what his name was, but there was the chap on Record Breakers/Blue Peter/both when I were nobbut a lad who held/broke the world record for simultaneous spinning plates, with around 40. I'm fairly sure he used to be listed in the GBR back in the day but I doubt records like that have a very long shelf life so you might need to find an elderly copy to find out.
I remember watching that too, I've been trying to find him on YouTube - but I'm not having much luck
I remember it being very exciting watching him run all over the place correcting plates
http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/29625b1d26eb44b7bad8969a987cf04d Says "Egea Junior" in 1989 - not found any video or photos yet :(
Didn't Winston Eyebrow break this record at some point? Or am I remembering that wrongly?
Has an interesting technique (although is a little pantomime heavy on the clowning for my liking)
Haha, what a strange style of clowning indeed
The throwing is cool, it reminds me of these 2 guys
Also, in the vid you posted you can see clearly they have some special tips on their poles... I suppose that wood just wears out too quickly because of the friction, but I wonder what to use instead..
About three years ago I did a gig in a black unitard with white balls stuck all over it. It was doing motion capture for a circus themed video game designed to help stroke victims regain arm movement. Basically the idea was to incorporate exercises that help to train motor skills into the required actions for a simple video game character, using nintento wii style controllers.
Anyway I digress from the point..
One of the things I did capture for was a plate spinning act. They had requested plate spinning, but had not described it in detail. So I borrowed a plastic plate and stick on the day of the gig and stuck it in my prop bag. When they asked about doing plate spinning they were expecting a full plate spinning act with a rig like the ones in this thread - which I obviously couldn't provide there and then with just a plate and a stick...
Or could I..
It was motion capture, so I suggested breaking it down into sections and letting the animators reassemble them later. We captured the motion of a plate on a stick a number of times to get a varied section of plate spin movement (which was not so easy once the plate and stick had little reflective balls stock all over them). Then did a section of effectively miming what a plate spinning act would be doing - with imaginary poles and plates. I think I might have even done capture for the drops with appropriate hamming up of the drops.
I was reminded about it reading this and went looking for the game to see if there was any video of it - and there is!
Video about the project itself:
Video of in game footage:
Plate spinning is at about 27 seconds in.
Now bearing in mind that I've never done plate spinning on stationary poles, and we didn't have a rig - it didn't end up coming out too badly.
Oh and If you are wondering I was also the juggler, the lion tamer - and I seem to remember walking on an imaginary tight rope..
What kind of plates are usually used? I only know of the plastic ones and metallic ones, but it sounds like porcelain.
I still need to experiment with this, but as far as I can tell:
Real ceramic plates. That is for sure. A lot of what you can buy in stores has a rim that is more than enough to keep your stick in the middle. I think that slightly deep plates are better, as they have more of their weight on the outside they might spin longer. That would explain why you see so many people spinning bowls also. I don't know ideal diameters for this bottom ring, but if this is a bit bigger you get a nice wobbly effect a few seconds before they drop...
In the first video I posted they use another spinning technique, which I found more videos of. I don't know if they use special plates for this, it seems weird that the plates are just able to balance on their center if there wouldn't be a bit of a hole in the center.
http://www.juggling.org/papers/stanyon/new-juggling-tricks.html has some ancient wisdom on this. Specifically in the "Ball or Plate on Stick" and "Plate and Basin Spinning" sections.
I did have a little play with this stuff ages ago (with a bit of bamboo cane clamped to the bench in my workshop, with a sawn off nail stuck in the top of it) - with a flexible stick and a small square of tape in the centre of the plate a standard ceramic plate will stay centred. However, because it stays centred, when it slows down it will fall off long before it goes "wobbly"
For that to happen, ditch the tape and use a heavy ceramic plate with a "foot" under it. You'll get a reasonably fast stable spin with the plate approximately centred, and then as it slows down it'll precess the stick out to the edge of the plate, where it'll hit the foot and you'll get a nice visual wobbly spin with the stick whipping round in a circle.
I never did anything more than an afternoon playing with it (which is why I've kept my mouth shut about that side of the question in the hope that someone knowledgable will chime in before me!)
Getting a spin started seemed easy, restoring spin to a plate which had slowed down seemed more tricky, but not something you couldn't get the knack of fairly easily.
I don't think it's "special" plates as much as it is cheap plates. Lots and lots of cheap plates. If you're performing, probably from a restaurant supply wholesaler, if you're not performing - charity shops and car boot sales!
I'm fairly sure I've seen acts use large round plastic bowls (like washing up bowls, but bigger) but I can't coax google into giving me some useful looking pictures, let alone videos.
Thanks for the long and in detail description! I will look through the paper and hopefully I'll figure it out. :)
What do you mean with plate waltzing? Spinning it on a table, or spinning it between your hands like Burlet does?
As for tricks in between spinning: Yes, I have been thinking of this too.
I hope to find tricks that take a lot of time to set up, but very little time to do. The spoon trick is a good example. The trick itself takes a split second so can be done at the very end, but you can keep yourself busy for ages lining all the spoons and glasses up perfectly.
Any other suggestions? All my ring spinning tricks take long to do...
Plate waltzing is the tabletop spinning, enrich brenn includes it (and 3 other classic tricks) here
IM trying to remember the name of the magician from the turn of the century who included plate waltzing in his act, there are photos of him waltzing bowls up a spiral ramp - which is not something I've ever seen performed!
I'm such a dullard.
John Nevil Maskelyne, his plates and ramp can be seen on this poster http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/evanion/Record.aspx?EvanID=024-000000341&ImageIndex=0 (click the image for bigger)
There's a brief video of his plate waltzing here http://youtu.be/-dZGPvBJleE - I recognise the footage, it's reconstructed from a scan of a book which includes a photographic plate that has 2 strips of film down the sides.
Interesting chap Maskelyne. He was one of the first magicians to debunk psychic phenomena - and he invented the door lock for London toilets which required the insertion of a penny coin to open the door.
Which is the origin of the euphemism to "spend a penny"
I thought you were going to mention Signor Blitz who was a magician and juggler in the 19th century (and was possibly the first ventriloquist to use a dummy) - he was so well known that it was worth writing a waltz, slapping his name on it and selling sheet music - http://www.crownantiques.com/item.cgi?item_id=15710 - with a picture of the plate waltzing at the top.
Coo! I recognise the name in conjunction with ventriloquism, but was unaware of his plate waltzing :)
It's good to know that you read and absorbed the plate section that i wrote on trickswithhats.org ;-)
I once read on the internet somewhere (so it must be true) that there were half a dozen people (mis)using the Blitz name, while he was still working, to cash in on his success! I think one of the fakes even got a New York Times obituary, despite the real guy dying several years before...
I can't be expected to remember everything I hosted on the Internet a thousand years ago :P
A couple of months back, a series of events (which I'm deeply annoyed about) led to me losing control of the domain name, it's currently being squatted by a rather dubious looking firm who seem to want an astonishing amount of cash to get it back.
An amount of cash Mike and I are not willing to stump up to re-gain control of a site that hadn't had any meaningful updates in almost a decade :/
The content is available on archive.org, and I've got a vague plan to spin up a youtube channel to re-host all the videos in one place in an attempt to make some of it available again - although I've not quite got around to sorting that out yet.
Oh, that sounds like a real PITA. :-(
Well, we'd be happy to see a new JTV user appear, should you get around to rehosting.
Hmmm. I might email you about that....
I really enjoyed this lovely ball spinning act found in the related videos o one of these:
He makes it look very easy!
Also whenever I see a rack of plate spinning poles I wonder whether I'm about to see a plate spinning act or a dog agility demonstration. Has anyone ever combined the two?
I´m new here. I´m Juli from Germany. I have been juggling for some time, though I´m getting more interested in the online community recently. I´m trying to get 5 clubs to work but mostly I´m interested in passing and takeouts. Won´t make it to the BJC (as last year and the years before) but will be at ejc for sure.
Welcome to the Edge, it is good to see more people interested in passing and takeouts, sorry to hear you won't be at BJC this year.
yeah, thx. I guess that means it will be Limoncello at ejc Bruneck (as the Berlin convention won´t take place this year)...
Oops! in my anglocentric mindset I misread BJC as British Juggling Convention rather than Berlin JugglingConvention. Yes, it is quite sad that Berlin isn't happening this year as it is one my favourite juggling conventions.
Are you looking forward to the homemade Limoncello at Bruneck?
Oh no, that´s fine. I was planning to come to BJC this year but can´t make it. As Berlin is not taking place, we´ll next see at ejc. The homemade Limoncello is very good. I added a lot less sugar so it´s not so sweet. I can drink it without Bitter Lemon, now. And I´ll bring it to ejc although I feel stupid, bringing Limoncello to Italy.
Hi Juli, welcome to the Edge.
I'd normally ask about your juggling, but now that I know what Limoncello is I'm more interested in that. Do you have a recipe?
Sure do. Will be tested by Italians in a blind, controlled study on Friday. If it´s any good I´ll post it. If not, we can talk juggling...
Oh... tell me more about this study design.... if anyone is interested in this type of thing it's one of the interesting parts of my job [setting up randomisation schemes for clinical trials!]
Wow, then, I expect you can help me, Dee!
As I´m usually working in cell-based assays I´m purely pre-clinic.
I´m using Limoncello from a German supermarket and Limoncello of Novella´s favorite brand from Italy as controls.
I was thinking to do double blind, so I´d let a colleague who does not drink set up 3 same plates with shot glasses of Limoncello on same color napkins, labelled under the plate. Randomisation for 3 samples? I guess that would be up to that colleague...is there a strategy for 3? Maybe I should let him offer each sample twice, that´d make it 6 samples and more options? Anyway, double blind should remove any bias and I told only you jugglers that I myself consider the home-made Limoncello very good because it is not too sweet. My colleagues did not get any information beforehand. As to the number of test persons, I´ll have to wait who shows up on friday - scientists always have some more work to do. I was planning to let each of them make a list which they liked best, second best and least with 1 keyword as to the reason for their decision (like: too sweet).
So, what do you think of this study design?
So, 6 six or more shots per test subject, a sample size unlikely to provide conclusive results, and the very great risk of alcohol-skewed data? Yep, that sounds like any normal Friday night at a juggling convention! Bring it on.
As mentioned, you need to think about the effects of alcohol consumption on the taste buds - so I would think about some "drink" scales such as "overall flavour", "sweetness", and "acidity" [and whatever else you may want to consider when comparing the drinks].
As alcohol is involved, I'd keep the questions simple:
Rank the samples on the colour (if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that).
Rank the samples on the sweetness [not how much they like the sweetness level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
Rank the samples on the acidity [not how much they like the acidity level] if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
Rank the samples on the initial flavour if they can't distinguish between two make a note of that.
From this you may be able to conclude that your subjects prefer a "middle level of sweetness"
If you were doing a scoring rather than a ranking system you could leave more of a space between sampling and also consider the aftertaste of each, but I wouldn't go that far here. When working on my PhD (in a food research institute) I experienced lots of taste-testing under red-light conditions [so that we couldn't judge the colour of what we were trying out!]. Managing the colour by using white napkins underneath the drinks is an easier way - especially because you do want to think about the colour in this instance.
Good luck and enjoy the tasting.
Results of Limoncello tasting and winning recipes
It certainly was not science as we did it outside of the lab - so no one wore lab coats!
A test group of 9 people (5F, 4M) tested 4 different recipes of Limoncello.
Favorite was #1, ranked best by 7 out of 9 testers and second best by 1/9.
Second favorite was #2, ranked favorite by 1/9 and second by 5 out of 9 tasters.
Color of Limoncello is not important, as #2 had lowest score on good color for 9/9 testers and still it ranked second in overall favorite.
Acidity is negative in Limoncello, as winning samples on overall favorite (#1 & #2) scored medium to low on acidity.
Medium to high sweetness is preferred as the favorite sample (#1) is second on sweetness whereas the second favorite (#2) is ranked as sweetest.
Peel the yellow skin off 4 lemons. Be careful not to include the white skin as this will give a bitter taste.
Add the lemon skin to 500ml of 96% ethanol and incubate at room temperature for 10 days.
Heat 1.5L of tap water and dissolve 300g sugar. Let cool.
Pour the lemon ethanol through a fine mesh.
Mix lemon ethanol and sugared water at v/v ratio of 1:3 to obtain < 2L of >32% alc. Limoncello.
Store and serve at -20°C.
Enter German supermarket
Go to register before 10pm (after 10pm, no alcohol may be sold)
Pay ~ 8€
Store at room temperature and serve at -20°C.
There are leftovers...
A German supermarket open after 8pm... so the rumours are true that they exist outside of Karlsruhe?
Do you have any graphs? I'm pretty sure that a pie chart would be the best way to record* the data**.
* record = annoy
** data = statistician
Sounds delivious, but on the serving temperature is that correct? Strikes me as rather cold.
Yes, outside of Bavaria, everything is possible.
If I get another break from work, I´ll make the worst worst 3D rainbow colored graph and bring it together with the Limoncello on Saturday. Otherwise I try to stay away from excel.
Good luck in the exams!
4°C and then on ice tastes ok but the Italians in the testing group were adamant about -20°C being THE ONLY temperature.
...and now I´m off to prepare a workshop on an ambidexterous passing pattern for 3 people - 'La vache qui rit'!
If any of the lemoncello is left over after Friday and you urgently need to get rid of it before the end of the month... then I might know someone who could help.
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