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Orinoco -

Lots of nice clips & insights into of WC Fields

el_grimley -

Juggling in journals...

I'm currently trying to put together a thing which includes some of the benefits of juggling and would like to be sure what I am saying is accurate and backed up by science. Trouble is, most of the journals I am coming across are paywalled which goes against the openness of the thing I am trying to put together (I want to be transparent). Are there any good journal articles that anyone knows about that are worth a read that aren't paywalled. I also want to make sure I am not caught in some kind of Google search bubble.


Mike Moore - - Parent

This is a great summary of some literature:

There's also some work on anxiety easing due to juggling. IMO, limited academic research, but I have seen a couple therapists (I think) report positive effects in less formal media.

As for specifically non-paywalled, theses come to mind. There was one from the University of Manitoba:
The Impact of Circus Arts Instruction on the Physical Literacy of Children in Grades 4 and 5

el_grimley - - Parent


Little Paul - - Parent

For paywalled articles, if you can track down the authors I’ve had some success in the past by emailing the author and asking for a copy of the article.

it’s not always possible to identify current contact information, and success will vary depending on the author (and how nicely you ask!) but it doesn’t cost anything to try.

el_grimley - - Parent

I'm trying to make what I am putting together easy to be checked. If I jumped through hoops to get some information I don't want other people to do the same. That said I have often found that reading a lot of journals, especially the links they give, and then narrowing down later super useful so I'll give this a go.

Dee - - Parent

Have you searched using google scholar? They will often link to self-archived versions that are not behind paywalls.

For example, as a UK academic, I have to put my papers on my institutional research repository. The library then works out when this can be released (according to copyright restrictions) for open access on our site, which is sometimes before the version on the main site becomes open access.

el_grimley - - Parent

Thanks. I'll have a look at this over the weekend.

Petit Minion -

Hey !

I was wondering if someone have a script to create a ical calendar with the jugglingesge API?

Or someone know how to use rss feed to create a calendar?

I would love to have a interactive calendar wich update when the jugglingedge database change. A calendar for one specific region

Tchou :)

Orinoco - - Parent

What calendar software are you using?

In Google Calendar click the + symbol next to 'Other calendars'. Select 'From URL'. Enter (explanation of all options can be found here), then click the 'Add calendar' button & that's it.

Petit Minion - - Parent

Thats amazing ! :D the calendar is updated automatically when the database change?

Orinoco - - Parent

Yes, Google regularly requests updates from the Edge & will add them to the calendar.

Petit Minion - - Parent

Work perfectly thx :)

Orinoco -

Animated siteswaps return!

We now have a spangly new Siteswap animator. For those of you with the highlight siteswaps option enabled you will now see the return of random green links in posts like this one: 645 (you may need to do some cache clearing).

Originally I used the jugglinglab java applet, but replaced that with the service when most browsers stopped supporting java by default. When disappeared I disabled the feature & started looking at a lightweight javascript canvas based alternative that I can control.

Fortunately the awesome Tom Whitfield at did the hard work for me. Tom has been good enough to allow me to reuse his code here. I've fixed a minor bug, stripped out a lot of features that don't make much sense for the Edge & done some optimisation to make it run faster. It's still a bit choppy on low powered devices with no GPU acceleration but it's still usable.


The Void - - Parent

Ah, I wondered when/why that broke. Good to see it back. Well done Orin/Tom

The Void - - Parent

Now that Meta is dead, I have no way of checking if I've asked things before. But since this is a re-instituted and rejigged feature... I don't think valid siteswaps should be highlighted if they're within a URL.

Orinoco - - Parent

It shouldn't do... (bare url)
a 531 in an html link
a 531 in link text

Orinoco - - Parent

& apparently doesn't, do you have an example?

The Void - - Parent

The url within this post has 2015 highlighted.

Orinoco - - Parent

Reparsing the message fixes the problem, I do remember fixing the problem at some point so it must have been sometime between 2015 & now. I'll have a look at writing a routine to pick up old messages that need reparsing tomorrow.

Orinoco - - Parent

...& now accepting pattern input via the URL:

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

Hi! I tried to write passing pattern - it doesn't work.
Will you make update?

And about juggling-records... it's so strange that we have two similar sites with juggling records and somebody use one, somebody - other. I hope, you will cooperate and make one best juggling resource.

Orinoco - - Parent

I'm afraid passing pattern support is way beyond the capabilities of this script. You are much better off using a dedicated program like Jongl or JoePass!

Tom & I already cooperate, he has obviously allowed me to use his code & I've sent him my bug fixes. Personally I think having multiple sites is a good thing. Monocultures make the web a very dull place. We've both taken different approaches & have produced two different sites.

Ilia Poliakov - - Parent

Okay, maybe. On i try to input my records from juggling edge and it doesn't work.
I didn't find Tom's contact, so please write it to him.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Nice feature!

There is some weird scaling going on when opening the animator on my Android Chrome.

If I click a siteswap in your post:

If I go to the animator page and enter a siteswap (zoomed out as much as possible otherwise nothing was visible)

Orinoco - - Parent

Weird indeed. I will have to investigate further as it is working on all my devices.

Cedric Lackpot -

A video with Jason Garfield with hair, and non-sociopathic facial expressions. He actually cracks a smile! ​<shudder>

Maybe you've all seen this a million times before, but I haven't. It's actually a Dave Finnigan video but it includes Jason before the Borg got to him, juggling, devil sticking, cigar boxing, and so on. I found it surprisingly unsettling seeing him so young and so far out of character.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I love these songs, and have already been practising the each one teach one on my ukulele! They're all amazing!

Orinoco - - Parent

That was horrific.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

You misspelled "terrific"! I bet that's one of those moments where you'd wish there was an 'edit post' feature? :p

Mike Moore - - Parent

My wife recently bought a DVD containing this...lots of great laughs and fun. She's now bought a small handful of them for gifts.

I'm surprised to see it uploaded. I wonder if Dave knows about this.

Joe -

Hey everyone I made a quick edit showing what months of isolated practice led to. Started juggling clubs 8 months ago! would love if you checked it out.

The Void - - Parent

Hi Joe,
Oh, you do claw catches with clubs! I discovered/invented those a few aeons ago, but I never see anyone doing them, so neat. Nice toolbelt loading too.

The Void - - Parent

Hey Orin,
I composed and previewed my reply, and after previewing, Joe's video was embedded twice (in his post, not in my reply). Tried it again with another thread, and the same thing happened. iPad2. Not really a problem, but I know you love it when I report minor anomalies.

Orinoco - - Parent

It does give me something to do on a Sunday morning! Try it now.

The Void - - Parent


Orinoco - - Parent

Also weird indeed. I will have to investigate further as it is working on all my devices.

Mini -

I am moving house and clearing out some stuff i aint used in a while.

turns out i dont need 12 solicon balls!


would anyone like 5 64mm white spotlight silicon bounce balls.

Mike Moore -

High Density Plastic Pellets for Making Beanbags

I'm intrigued by the GBallz E8 Pro description:
Pro filling is a mixture of 2 plastics to get the weight/volume just perfect

I expect one of those fillings is something like polypropylene, maybe the highish density stuff. The highest density PP filling I could find was 11 ounces/cup (#MuricaUnits), about 1.3 g/cm^3. I have two questions for the all-knowing Edge consciousness:

1 - Do you know of any plastic pellets that have a greater bulk density than 1.3 g/cm^3?
2 - Do you know why E8 Pros don't have their fillings separate by density?

Help/guidance appreciated!

Orinoco - - Parent

Wouldn't a regularly spinning bean bag act like a centifruge causing the different density pellets to separate over time?

Alex Jones - - Parent

In practice I don't think this would be much of a problem, unless you really made an effort to spin the balls - and even then I suspect it would not be noticeable. My mate used to make some juggling balls (gballz-style) and we experimented with using millet and 1mm steel shot to customise the density and weight. In general it was really successful; you could get a nice small saggy ball that was still nicely weighted for numbers juggling, and I think the potential advantages are pretty good if done well.

The general randomness of throwing distributes the different densities around inside the ball and you don't notice the dual filling at all. It is much less of an issue than switching to Russian balls where it can be really noticeable that the centre-of-gravity is not the centre of the ball.

Not sure what the different densities of plastic might be, but I suspect this might be a better option than using the more dense steel shot. We never tested the balls to destruction but my feeling would be that the density of the steel shot would wear through the fabric more quickly and might start falling out. This could be more of a problem than with just different plastic pellets of more similar density.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Interesting, I'm surprised and impressed that even materials with such dramatically densities didn't settles meaningfully in authentic testing! Thanks.

Alex Jones - - Parent

I think in our case it was helped by the fact that the steel shot is particularly dense (almost certainly more so than any plastic pellets). You therefore only needed something like 1/10th-1/5th the volume (maybe a teaspoon or two) of shot to millet to make a big difference to the weight of the ball. With such a relatively small quantity of denser filling it didn't seem to clump much and is quickly redistributed after every throw.

Size of pellets is probably also important. I can imagine that, as the size of pellet increases, any internal distribution effects might be made more noticeable. It would be interesting to do more experimentation, and indeed to try the E8 balls.

I realise that this makes the business model more tricky but I am slightly disappointed that GBallz don't let you customise the weight/size ratio, given that they offer the different fillings. To me this was the main reason for using dual filling, you could get a proper sag without the ball being either massive or too lightweight. By just specifying the weight and size as a single option it seems to negate much of the potential of the product. What if I want a 2.5inch ball that weighs 115g but is still saggy for example?

Mike Moore - - Parent

"I realise that this makes the business model more tricky but I am slightly disappointed that GBallz don't let you customise the weight/size ratio, given that they offer the different fillings."

Preach. That's exactly the reason I'm looking into this.

Mike Moore - - Parent

In theory, yes. I'm not sure if it's an issue in practice, though.

Little Paul -

Just found Paul Daniels Magic Show - S01E01 in-line, which has spots from Bob Bramson and Hans Moretti

Good quality capture compared to previous versions I’ve seen online, and I did notice a ball on Bob Bramsons prop stand, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen footage of him using it?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Great find! I took the liberty of reuploading that so others can find it more easily

Orinoco - - Parent

I've never visited the Daily Motion site before but it seems to have a lot of stuff that Youtube doesn't. I had a lot of things I was supposed to do last night but I ended up watching episodes of the Ronn Lucas show.

Little Paul - - Parent

Yes! Loads on there I’ve not seen anywhere else.

I hadn’t spotted the Ronn Lucas show, but I’ve been looking for it online for ages so I’m glad to hear it’s up there!

Now... do they have any of the Wayne Dobson show?

Orinoco - - Parent


Richard Loxley - - Parent

I'm informed that Daily Motion doesn't have automatic scanning for copyright content in the way YouTube does. Which means such things stay up far longer!

duncanh - - Parent

If you search the site there are quite a few other videos of the Paul Daniels Magic Show. I just found one with Bob Bramson head bouncing during his routine.

Little Paul - - Parent


It’s got Roberto Gasser in it too, and as controversial as animal acts are, I love Gasser’s act!

Also like that during the intro to Roberto Gasser PD says “we’ve never repeated an act before” - in the same episode that has Bramson’s second appearance 😁

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Which is a higher quality upload of this YT classic, with bouncing too!

Julien_H -

Shower thoughts

I've discovered (although it's probably nothing new) an easy system to translate siteswaps into shower variations. Instead of saying "high high low mid high" when doing a shower, you can find new patterns easily.

The idea is to take any siteswap, take all digits separately and "convert" them into a "shower" sequence. This would translate like this

0 -> 00
1 -> 11
2 -> 31
3 -> 51
4 -> 71
5 -> 91
6 -> b1
etc ...

So you can do for example a 63641 shower, which would translate to b151b17111

It's an easy way to find new ways to make showers interesting. I'll let you think of something more fun to do than 11 sequences ;-)

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Ohh, that's sweet!

Do you have an explanation/proof of why it works? Are there similar transformations that would work too?

Julien_H - - Parent

I'd love to find solid theory for WHY it works ;-). If anybody wants to chip in, please do!

I haven't found other cases like that right now. It reminds me of a workshop by Mees Jager about sprung siteswaps where he said that 4 balls sprung is like juggling a 3 balls cascade with a ball that come and go between each throw. With that in mind, you can easily imagine nice sprung siteswaps.

Orinoco - - Parent

Interesting, I 'discovered' early on when playing with siteswaps you can turn any 2 handed siteswap into a one handed one by doubling all the values & adding a 0 after each one:


Which is the same thing I think. I never thought to take it a step further.

It will work as long as the 'padding digit' is always the same so that you are always spacing out the exchanges proportionally. Extrapolating it further as long as you take all your substitutions from the same column in the following table you should end up with a valid siteswap.

Digit *0 *1 *2 *3 *4 *5 *6 *7 *8 *9
0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
1 20 11 02 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2 40 31 22 13 04 -- -- -- -- --
3 60 51 42 33 24 15 06 -- -- --
4 80 71 62 53 44 35 26 17 08 --
5 a0 91 82 73 64 55 46 37 28 19
6 c0 b1 a2 93 84 75 66 57 48 39
7 e0 d1 c2 b3 a4 95 86 77 68 59
8 g0 f1 e2 d3 c4 b5 a6 97 88 79
9 i0 h1 g2 f3 e4 d5 c6 b7 a8 99

You can work out the replacement pattern bc for a using the following:

a → bc where b=2a-c & b>0

3 digit substitutions should also work.

'The Halet Transformation' has a nice ring to it :)

Julien_H - - Parent

Yeah that makes sense! I didn't know the two to one handed theory!

The name is nice, but I wouldn't take credit for something as serendipitous as that ;-)

James Hennigan - - Parent

A similar transformation is the conversion of a two-handed siteswap its one-handed version.
All you have to do is double every number and put 0s between them.

423 in one hand is 804060.
7441 in one hand is e0808020.

This works simply because one-handed patterns can be thought of as being juggled with either (1) one hand or (2) one hand + an empty hand.
So 423 in one hand could be written as "423" under interpretation (1) or "804060" under interpretation (2).

Another example: 804060, considered as a two-handed siteswap, can be juggled in one hand as g0008000c000.

2n,0 can always be replaced by 1,(2n-1) in a siteswap.
20 can be replaced with 11; 40 can be replaced with 31; 60 can be replaced with 51 etc.

This works because, when juggling a one-handed pattern, we could, at any point, pass the ball we are about to throw to our 2nd hand, and then throw it one beat lower with our 2nd hand. This will result in the ball landing in the main hand at the same time it would have anyway.

This rule can be used to transform any one-handed pattern into a corresponding shower pattern.

This explains why the shower transformation works:
Any siteswap (e.g. 423) can be converted to a one-handed siteswap (804060), which can then be converted to a shower siteswap (171315; equivalent to 713151).

Julien_H - - Parent

That's a good explanation starting from the two to one-handed transformation! I didn't know about that one.

It reminds me of the high diabolo siteswap notation where you can see every siteswap as a "shower version", because of the behavior of the diabolo making an oval pattern, but it can also be interpreted as a one-handed version of a two-handed siteswaps.

Alex Jones - - Parent

This idea fits within a wider method that I have often used to find new patterns. I think it is best described as: 'imagine that this small section of this complex pattern is actually this other more basic pattern' or generally just 'imagine that this pattern is actually this other one'. Another example of this method is in the following idea: 'only focus on the top section of the pattern and ignore what is happening beneath'.

For example: imagine that the 6x's in (6x,4)* are 3s in a three ball cascade. By extension you can then juggle any 3-ball siteswap as a variation of the base pattern (6x,4)*.

423 -> (8,4)(4,4)(6x,4)*
441 -> (8,4)(4,8)(2x,4)*

Similarly you can also therefore 'see' box as just a 2-ball pattern of active twos. So you can then juggle any 2 ball siteswap as a variation of (4,2x)*.

I particularly like the 2-ball snake juggled via bo:

330 -> (6x,2x)(2x,6x)(0,2x)*

For such a theoretically straightforward pattern it is surprisingly mind-bending.

This general strategy can be used for loads of patterns, such as the series 501, 801, b01 which can be re-imagined as 3,4 and 5 ball base patterns respectively, which therefore leads to patterns such as:

423 -> 801201501
534 -> b01501801

Note that in this case not all siteswaps can be juggled like this as anything with a 1 in this system becomes a -1.

Similarly 744, imagine the 7s as a 3-ball cascade:

423 -> a44444744
441 -> a44a44144

Or 534, imagine the 5s as a 3-ball cascade:

423 -> 834234534
552 -> b34234234

Or 645, imagine the 6s as active 2s:

31 -> 945345
330 -> 945045945
501 -> the borderline unjugglable f45045345

Fundamentally I think this is most useful as a way to conceptualise patterns without having to use or understand the siteswap of particular patterns. It allows you to easily generate patterns by just juggling them whereas it has taken me quite a long time to work out the siteswaps of patterns that are conceptually quite simple.

I have not really mathematically considered what it is in particular that makes certain parts of patterns translatable but it is clear that if you imagine just looking at the top portion of a pattern you can effectively ignore what goes on below and just treat the top bit as an easier base pattern. Obviously this leads to some pretty tricky patterns but conceptually they are pretty straightforward.

Julien_H - - Parent

I really like this train of thought, especially the one with 6x,4

This opens a lot of goofy siteswaps to try!

Siteswap never ceases to amaze me!

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