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David Bremner -

Hello from Tasmania.
Been juggling for a while now (on and off for 20+ years) but have only recently decided to have a real crack at it. The plan started as trying to learn 5 Ball Cascade. Still trying to learn it, but have gone back to basics to give myself a good base from which to work from. Training for about an hour a day, sometimes 3. Was considering attempting WR for 3 Clubs, lol. I have managed 11min so far - not looking good! Just trying to have fun first off. 5 Balls can wait :-)

Also learning fireclubs to remove boredom. They are scary. Need to get some slightly less smokey fuel (Using Turps just now).

Not sure of any clubs in Tasmania, will have a look.

Found this site whilst looking for sewing patterns for balls, but that is another story.


Orinoco - - Parent

Hi David, welcome.

When you say turps do you mean real turpentine (natural oil made from tree sap) or "turps substitute" (distilled petroleum). I have no experience with turpentine but I'd definitely avoid anything petrol based. Paraffin is your friend.

David Bremner - - Parent

Cheers Orinoco, I will obtain some paraffin. The smoke off the turps is horrendous - can hardly see the clubs spinning - even at dusk. Only lit them up twice so got a far way to go. They feel very different from my PX3s, but the good thing is that they are not really affected by the wind (I practice outside, going on the principle that the wind moving the clubs around should increase my skill level).

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi from upper rhine, germany.

Taking a decision is half the success.

Welcome and good odds for your things!

David Bremner - - Parent

Hi 7b_wizard, I lived in Mainz for a year when I was about 9. Nice place from what I remember. Went to school in an American base camp which was weird (my dad worked for IBM).

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi again, David, how small the world can be!? Well, you know Mainz better than me then, as I was there only once a passerby ;o)

Tufty - - Parent

I've alwas used what was called "paraffin" as well, but this is not necessarily what it's called in oz. It used to be sold at the pump in old petrol stations, but it's definitely not what you'd put in your car unless you wanted a total motor teardown. Paraffin oil is what google seems to think it's called "down under".

It is smoky, less so than white spirit or turps, but burns relatively cool with a very visible flame. I've seen coleman fuel and the like suggested, it's a lot less smoky but that burns really damn hot.

And remember, shake off the excess *before* lighting your torches. Lesson learnt at Kent Custom Bike Show, circa 1992.

jubiwuem -

Deutsch-Tschechisches Jonglier- und Gauklertreffen
Fr 27.08. bis So 29.08.2021
Seit Jahren treffen sich Ende August Jongleur*innen, Akrobat*innen, Zauber- und Bühnenkünstler*innen an der Jugendbildungsstätte, um bei gemeinsamen Workshops ihre Fähigkeiten weiter zu entwickeln. Von Einsteiger-Workshops über Pädagog*innen-Fortbildungen wie "Jonglieren richtig lehren und lernen" bis zu Profi-Workshops für Fortgeschrittene wird wieder alles vertreten sein. In der offenen Atmosphäre werden Lehrende zu Lernenden und umgekehrt, denn vieles kann man sich bei anderen abschauen. Höhepunkt ist der "Show-Abend der Gaukler- und Jongleure" am Samstagabend, bei dem die Teilnehmer*innen ihr Können einer breiten Öffentlichkeit präsentieren. In der Woche zuvor wird wieder der "International Theatreworkshop ALEJE" mit tschechischen und deutschen Teilnehmern*innen in Kooperation mit uns stattfinden - auch diesmal wieder in Spálené Poříčí in der Nähe von Pilsen.
Zielgruppe: Interessierte Kinder und Jugendliche (ab 10 Jahren), Mitarbeiter*innen der Kinder- und Jugendarbeit (ab 15 Jahren)
Leitung: Franz Bauer, Lisa Montag, Adéla Kratochvílová, Dáša Heiland Trávníková
Kosten: DE 59 € / 49 € CZ 33 € /27 €
TN-Zahl: 150 Personen
Hinweis: Bitte bis Fr 06.08.2021 anmelden. Dieses Seminar findet in Kooperation mit Knoflík und mit dem "Divadlo Kufr" aus Brno (CZ) statt. Weitere Infos zum Treffen in Waldmünchen gibt es ab Frühjahr 2020 unter, Infos zum "19. International Theatreworkshop ALEJE" (21.-27.08.2021) in Spálené Porící (Tschechien, nahe Pilsen) unter

barnesy -

A siteswap question

Evening all. In playing with coding a n iOS siteswap animator and I'm wondering what simple manipulations can be made to a vanilla siteswap to turn it into another valid siteswap. Didn't find my answer quickly although I'm sure this had been discussed a lot so thought I'd give up and ask here! I can think of these:

- add period to any number (423 becomes 534)
- subtract period from any number >= period (534 becomes 504)
- add n objects by adding n to all digits (423 becomes 645 etc)
- subtract n objects by taking n off all digits (so all digits need to start high enough)

I'm not sure what will always work for changing period though. If the SS is written biggest digit first will it always work if you add the number of objects on the end? So 53 becomes 534 etc? What about the reverse of that? (When the last digit of a sorted SS is the number of items). I haven't thought of a counter example...

Any others?

Maria - - Parent

Adding the number of objects to the end only works for ground state siteswaps. (Or if you are lucky.) If you have 45123 you can add any number of 3s after, but if you write it as 51234 you can't add 3, 512343 isn't a valid siteswap. 55050 is not ground state and you can't just add a 3 anywhere.

The only other manipulation I can think of is the actual "siteswapping" manipulation; switching the landing time for two of the throws. Easier thought of as switching places of two numbers, increase the one moving to the left with the number of steps it moves, decrease the one moving to the right.

For example: If you have 555555 you can swap the 3s in the middle and get 556455, or the two closer to the ends to get 585525, or the ones on the ends to get a55550, or do all of them and get a86420. Or swap the first and third to get 753555 or...
Works for other siteswaps as well. 9647772 can be changed to 9649752 by swapping the first and last of the 7s, or 9557772 by swapping 6 and 4, or something else.

Maria - - Parent

Oh, typo... swap 5s, not 3s, but that was probably obvious.

barnesy - - Parent

We're talking about siteswap, but still the site swapping part of your answer hadn't occurred to me even though I've observed the numerical patterns behind it before. Definitely something I want to implement! Thanks again.

Maria - - Parent

So, I don't know anything that will always work for changing period, either, except if you know that it is ground state.

Adrian G - - Parent

* 'Creating new siteswaps' heading here has a lot, not all of which will work for you (useful ones are time reverse, dual, maybe convert to shower/one handed form):
* I think all these have already been covered, but it's got nice descriptions
* 'Siteswap pinch ups':

RE changing length, the ones I can think of (beyond adding the number of balls if ground state) are:
* Add transitions to/from ground state (only for excited state patterns)
* Boppo's siteswap pinch ups (I never spent the time to convince myself these always worked, but I trust him on them)
* Doubling there pattern (441 => 441441), combined with other ones it could be useful
* [Probably too rare] If all throws modulo the period and period+1 are the same, can add that value + K*(period+1), e.g. 17 => 174 (1 and 7 are both 1 when taken mod 2 & 3)

Orinoco - - Parent

* [Probably too rare] If all throws modulo the period and period+1 are the same, can add that value + K*(period+1), e.g. 17 => 174 (1 and 7 are both 1 when taken mod 2 & 3)

I'd not heard of this one before so I did a little spreadsheeting to see how it works & see if it was any use.

Firstly I got a little confused by K not being explicitly stated as throw weight % period, & for some reason I thought "that value" in the "that value + K*(period+1)" bit was part of the sentence & not part of the formula. "that value" is K so really the digit that you can add to the pattern is K * (initial period + 2) just in case anyone else made the same mistake.

Each cell in the following table shows the K values (throw weight % period) for an initial period p & final p+1 pattern.

Initial period > Final period
Throw 1 > 2 2 > 3 3 > 4 4 > 5 5 > 6 6 > 7 7 > 8 8 > 9
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
2 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
3 0 1 1 0 0 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
4 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
5 0 1 1 2 2 1 1 0 0 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
6 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 1 1 0 0 6 6 6 6 6
7 0 1 1 1 1 3 3 2 2 1 1 0 0 7 7 7
8 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 3 3 2 2 1 1 0 0 8
9 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 0

The cells highlighted in green show all the instances where the K values match in both the initial & final pattern. By looking down a column & picking out all green cells with a matching K value we can produce a list of candidate throw weights that we can use to create a siteswap that will be eligible for this transformation.

From the above table we can work out the following.

For converting a period 1 to a period 2 pattern.

When K = 0 we can see there are 5 candidate throws: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8.

Digit to add = K * (p+2) = 0 * (1+2) = 0

0 > 00
2 > 20
4 > 40
6 > 60
8 > 80

Which makes sense, we know that for every fountain we can drop one hand & juggle half the props in the other hand.

For converting a period 2 to a period 3 pattern there are 2 unique candidate lists.

When K = 0 there are 2 candidate throws: 0, 6.

Digit to add = K * (p+2) = 0 * (2+2) = 0

00 > 000
06 > 060
60 > 600
66 > 660

When K = 1 there are 2 candidate throws: 1, 7.

Digit to add = K * (p+2) = 1 * (2+2) = 4

11 > 114
17 > 174
71 > 714
77 > 774

(You can add the extra throw anywhere in the sequence, not just the end)

For all higher period patterns there are no instances where there is more than one candidate throw. So the only thing this method tells us is that we can modify an n prop base pattern into an n+1 prop pattern that takes the form of an n prop base pattern underneath a high throw.

While extending the range to include higher throw weights will increase the number of candidate throws the values quickly become so large as to be impractical. There will be p-1 groups of candidates & the difference between each candidate will be p2+p.

So I think the reason this is rare is because it is computationally intensive & doesn't tell us much!

I'm glad I took the time to work all that out! :P

Orinoco - - Parent

There will be p-1 groups of candidates

No there won't. There will be p groups of candidates.

The Void - - Parent

"The cells highlighted in green" would not be the phrase I'd've used there. :-)

Orinoco - - Parent



It would appear green was a poor choice!

It's clearer if you mark as read before reading!

The Void - - Parent

Ahhh, right. ;-)

Orinoco - - Parent

- add period to any number (423 becomes 534)

Or 423 becomes 723, 453, 426!

To slightly expand on Maria's point for adding the number of objects: you can only add this number immediately after a throw that puts the pattern into ground state.

eg. for 123456 (3 objects) the states are:

Initial state 1,0,1,0,1

1 > 1,1,0,1
2 > 1,1,1 (Ground)
3 > 1,1,1 (Ground)
4 > 1,1,0,1
5 > 1,0,1,0,1

So you can add a 3 after the 2 or the 3 which both produce 123345.

Which now that I think about it means you can add or insert any number (or sequence of numbers) that puts the pattern into the same state. eg. 12345 finishes on 1,0,1,0,1 to keep the pattern in the same state you can throw 15 or 60 (1234515 or 1234560).

(I am so proud of, it's bloody useful!)

barnesy - - Parent

Thanks for all those answers. They've given a bit of clarity in the patchier areas of my understanding, particularly relating to ground state. That tends to be enough to switch my brain into 'la la, not listening' mode but I'll have a deeper read about it.

And yes, that was a single example for 423!

I've got JMLib (JuggleMaster's engine) working in the app so now I'm thinking about a UI that's more fun/interesting than a text box or a list.

7b_wizard - - Parent

You can also take away an orbit.

( for 333 this simply becomes e.g. 330; for 531, it can become 501, but also .. )

531531 can become

BasB -

Hello everyone!

I am a 32yo male from the Netherlands, currently residing in Dhaka, Bangladesh. I learnt a 3b cascade and a few tricks in school, but really discovered juggling as a hobby in 2018 in Sudan. Since then, Ive learnt siteswap and a bunch of new patterns.

Im currently working on the following goals:
working on inverted, box-type, (2x,2x) types of patterns. On my to do list for the upcoming period: broken box, burst box, switched box, threaded box. Oh and of course 60 for the fountain.
- solidifying (6x,2x)(2x,6x), 633, 71, 651, 64514, 61661
- learning 645
- aaarrggh the fountain is progressing slowly
- not a focus at the moment, but maintaining current level with the goal of working on it after 6b solidifies.

In Bangladesh the air pollution gets really bad in the winter, which locks me indoors where I can only do patterns with up to 6x throws. Outdoors I work mainly on numbers, but Ill have to find a better spot once lockdown measures due to corona shut down a bit.

Since Ive only juggled somewhat seriously in Sudan and Bangladesh, I have very little experience with other jugglers. I managed to find a few poi spinners here who Im trying to teach a few juggling patterns, but there don’t seem to be dedicated juggling places here.

Anyways, long story short; looking forward to logging some patterns here and being part of the virtual community. And hopefully Ill be able to meet some of you sometime on a convention!

7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi & welcome, BasB, good read!

Daniel Simu - - Parent


Cameron Cattrall -

Hello all! I've been on here a while but never got round to doing my first post! I've only been juggling for a little over a year now, but love the community and the sheer amount of fun that can be had juggling! I'm spending a lot of time at the moment exploring different prop combinations (current favourite is 2 balls and a contact staff) and was wondering if anyne knew of any good videos on multiprop juggling ideas or cool and unique combos of props? (Stuff like the Wes Peden devilstick video, Luke Burrages multiprop squeeze catches, etc!)

Thanks a bunch!

John Shearing - - Parent

Welcome Cameron!

Have you checked out for some ideas, the YouTube of juggling videos?


7b_wizard - - Parent

Hi Cameron!

,, and there for example jani suihkonen's original inventive explorations on a good deal also selfmade or unusual props, but also combos
Guess, you know "saturns"?

Cameron Cattrall - - Parent

Yeah I've been playing around with Saturns for a bit! And yeah I really like Jani's stuff, he was one of the reasons I started exploring combinations in the first place :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

°Aaah° .. that's how circles close :o)

Search returns him on facebook ( now? formerly too? dunno ).

Mike Moore - - Parent

The winner of the IRC 2019 at EJC did bounce juggling + contact staff. If you haven't seen his stuff, it's definitely worth watching!

(I can try and be more useful with finding a video if it turns out to be difficult to find. But off to bed now)

JonPeat - - Parent

Sebastian Berger:

Welcome Cameron!

David Bremner - - Parent

This is my second post :-)

I do some multiprop stuff, but it is just to mix it up a bit and nothing serious. It does my head in. I have a set of tennis balls filled with lead (500g) which I use for weight training. Fav combination is one of these, a club and an egg.

koahfong -

Hi All, my first post here. Thank you Orinoco for the invite.
I am from Singapore and have been enjoying juggling since the 1980s.
Hope to catch up on what's happening in the juggling world. Cheers!

Tufty - - Parent


The Void - - Parent

Hey, welcome aboard!

7b_wizard - - Parent

How d'you do, koahfong.

Orinoco - - Parent

Welcome Koah Fong. Are you still involved with the Singapore jugglers? I remember you from the late 90s/early 00s, back in the days of personal homepages when the web was exciting & new!

Yuri - - Parent

Hey, how is going on Singapur now about juggling? Nice welcome.

mike.armstrong -

I'm going to bin my BJC and EJC pass collection - I still haven't found a nice way to display it, so it's just clutter for me!
Before they go, is anyone missing any from their collection that they'd like? I've got most BJCs going back to 1996 (with some or all of the volunteer badges) and a mixed bag of EJC ones

John R - - Parent

There’s no photo of the 2018 Canterbury pass on the wiki yet, so maybe take a snapshot of that one first? A few other pass images are also missing, but all the others I spotted seem to be festival wristbands, not crafted objects.,_Canterbury,_2018

Cid -

Introduction :)

Hi, I'm Cid
a French Human who juggled a bit when in my teenage years (devil stick mainly). I remembered these times fondly as it felt extremely rewarding through the constant progress.

I m not a teenager anymore, and the devil stick isn t really a thing for me anymore, I ve started to juggle balls at the beginning of October, to chase that particular feeling again and the joy it brought me.
I practice everyday, no matter what, sometimes just 5 minutes.

Happy to be part of this website / community :)

7b_wizard - - Parent

hey ho & welcome, Cid! .. that's a nice story with that feeling an' all, and choosing against devilsticking. I wonder what all else might be comparable on that behalf .. multiple boomerangs, .. clubs juggling (also have handles), .. twirling .. (?)

Tufty - - Parent

Salut et bienvenu, etre humain francais.

S'entrainer tous les jours est un tres bon facon d'avancer vite, mais on peut vite se trouver bloqué aussi; si possible, trouver des clubs de jonglage dans ta region* et s'echanger avec des autres aussi de temps en temps.

3 balles, c'est genial. Jonglage en etat pur.

* apres que cette histore de covid est passé, bien sur - pour l'instant c'est chaud a organiser les cours ou ateliers.

The Void - - Parent

Welcome, Cid,
Today I'm going to do my first bit of juggling this year. The fun is always there for anyone who returns to it!
Bring back dot sigs

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