Little Paul - #
Just found Paul Daniels Magic Show - S01E01 in-line, which has spots from Bob Bramson and Hans Moretti
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x74us5u
Good quality capture compared to previous versions I’ve seen online, and I did notice a ball on Bob Bramsons prop stand, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen footage of him using it?
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Great find! I took the liberty of reuploading that so others can find it more easily
https://youtu.be/lMVt_20L0gs
I've never visited the Daily Motion site before but it seems to have a lot of stuff that Youtube doesn't. I had a lot of things I was supposed to do last night but I ended up watching episodes of the Ronn Lucas show.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Yes! Loads on there I’ve not seen anywhere else.
I hadn’t spotted the Ronn Lucas show, but I’ve been looking for it online for ages so I’m glad to hear it’s up there!
Now... do they have any of the Wayne Dobson show?
Richard Loxley - - Parent #
I'm informed that Daily Motion doesn't have automatic scanning for copyright content in the way YouTube does. Which means such things stay up far longer!
If you search the site there are quite a few other videos of the Paul Daniels Magic Show. I just found one with Bob Bramson head bouncing during his routine.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Awesome!
It’s got Roberto Gasser in it too, and as controversial as animal acts are, I love Gasser’s act!
Also like that during the intro to Roberto Gasser PD says “we’ve never repeated an act before” - in the same episode that has Bramson’s second appearance ?
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Which is a higher quality upload of this YT classic, with bouncing too!
https://youtu.be/BsI_PAcmlnE?start=168
Morning Edgers.....
It's been a long time since I last posted on this forum! I wrote a small treatise on Manipulation and thought I'd share it with you.
It can be read on the link below:
http://tenderfoot.co.uk/points-to-note-for-the-manipulation-of-objects/
Exploration! .. always inciting.
Would maybe a bigger carpenter's pencil allow for better handling? or two such as handles to manip the cup ..
Ian Marchant - - Parent #
Thanks for reading and watching....The larger pencil question is valid but my choice was the pencil I chose. Each object has its own limitations and personal ways, a larger carpenters pencil would have lead to a different outlook. The same goes for 2 pencils my objective was to work with a cup and a pencil.
I'd love to see what you come up with, with 2 pencils and a cup! Film it and send a link!
I see, makes sense "with what you have \ with what there is".
Well, I'm not into it myself and am having an intense time with 9b, but thx 4 trying to push me ;o)
Little Paul - - Parent #
I like your approach!
Also, well done for picking a pencil rather than the more obvious teaspoon!
Ian Marchant - - Parent #
Thanks Paul, its just the beginnings but its something.
My reasons for not using a tea spoon is I wanted to use 2 objects that don't normally go together. A teaspoon would have maybe lead me to think of it as a tea spoon on a subconscious level and could have clouded my thoughts.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Absolutely, it's a good choice of companion object for just that reason.
I understand that for exploration like this it's not always helpful to look to prior art (as that can affect what areas you explore and don't explore) but...
I've just remembered the existence of a juggling video from an american convention show (wasn't the IJA, I think it might have been portland?) where someone (whose name escapes me) was manipulating a yogurt and a teaspoon. I remember lots of satisfied grinning when he eventually ate some yogurt off the spoon.
So, as a side quest... can anyone remember who that was, which convention it was, and most importantly - is the video still online somewhere? I now want to rewatch it!
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Yoghurt and teaspoon, you're thinking of Pol and Freddy aka Sander de Cuyper and Bram Dobbelaere?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Vague hints on google search results suggest I might be thinking of Denis Paumier at RIT 2003... which fits my memory, but I can’t find video
Little Paul - - Parent #
I’ve had this confirmed, I was correct - Dennis Paumier at RIT.
There is no publicly available video of the performance any more, which is a shame because it was great!
</side-quest>
Mike Moore - - Parent #
Thanks for including the preamble text and videos, they certainly changed how I watched the final video.
Something that resonated with me: the strong "No, don't do that!" feeling when Benjamin put the wine glass in a precarious position. When I watched your video, I enjoyed thinking about things that would elicit a similar response from me with a mug and a pencil. With the mug on the table, the first "No!" was having it upside-down, getting dirt on the lip.
Interesting. I've always thought storing mugs upside down was better because they won't accumulate falling dust, grease, spores etc. on the inside.
I wonder which would be greater the amount of muck picked up on the rim vs how much could fall into the mug over time.
Little Paul - - Parent #
This talk of upside down mugs has just given me a very pleasing flashback to Paul Daniel's chop cup routine...
PD: "Where's the ball"
Audience: "On top of the cup."
PD: "Wrong! it's on the bottom... the cup's upside down"
Mike Moore - - Parent #
For storage, I keep frequently used mugs rightside up, and infrequently used ones upside down. And some alternate, for better packing purposes.
But in the video, it was outside! On an outdoor table! Surely mucky.
Interesting :). I keep some of my cups upside down in staples (possible with the IKEA cups I have). So I guess that combines the advantage of both methods for the second cup and up, as the upside of the cups does not get contaminated by the cupboard dirt and nothing falls inside from the top :).
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I'm not sure what you mean by "in staples", but I is the effect something like this?
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LatfgFmWBuNjSspdq6zugXXas/Creative-Inverted-Red-Wine-Glass-Holder-High-Quality-Suspended-Glass-Holder-Bar-Hanging-Cup-Holder-Wine.jpg_640x640.jpg
Those are very cool!
Some of my mugs are truncated cone shaped so they get stored alternating upside down, right way up to save on space. And they're inside a cupboard anyway so the falling dust issue isn't a concern.
I've never noticed any difference using the upside down ones compared to the right way up ones
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
Yes. I think mugs on shelves are better stored upside down but in cupboards there isn't really the need.
Llama_Bill - #
BJC Workshops
Is there a list of the confirmed workshops for BJC yet?
Is the BJC dying a slow death?
I've not been for a few years so I was quite surprised to hear how few are expected to attend this year. Fewer than half the amount of people that used to go about 10 years ago.
Is this a sign of a fall in the numbers of young jugglers taking up the hobby or are there just more events dividing up the pool of likely attendees?
BJC numbers are always down when it's in a "far corner" of the UK. Of course, we're well down from the early 90s heyday, but that's been true for years.
The last 2 with figures for attendance on https://thebritishjugglingconvention.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=BJC_History (both in Darton) are over 900. That's pretty good. I'm sure Perth will have been well down on that, and I guess it makes sense for Canterbury to budget on a low figure too. We'll see how it goes, I guess....
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire. I suppose I'd need to know more about the concentration of jugglers around the country but I would have assumed London and Bristol to be hotspots.
Anyway I hope you're right because 500 seems a small number to me.
Where are you getting 500 from? *If* it's their budgeting figure, that's presumably a worst case scenario, and therefore it wouldn't be unreasonable to *hope for* 600-700. Dunno, I'm guessing...
From the horse's mouth. Budgeting figure is even lower.
Good to know the last couple were around 900. That's a good number.
When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
There has to be a number where it is no longer viable in its current form.
Mind you, under 500 and we could do it at Hulver farm
British Balls Up anyone?
There are no numbers on that site for attendance for the last 2 (anyone know?). 900s were 2014 & 2015.
Well, here's hoping...
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
> When people are deciding between BJC or Catch it can't be a good thing.
Why not? I see that it's a risky situation, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. It seems to me that the BJC does not have a right to be pre-eminent, it needs to earn that status.
I meant it can't be a good thing for the BJC. It might well be a good thing for juggling.
It already seems quite hard to get people to commit to running one, if numbers decline who's going to take the risk of making a big loss?
Maybe both can be successful?
Anyway, come to BJC and eat at Montegriffo's.....
Richard Loxley - - Parent #
I wouldn't have called Kent a far flung corner. Not compared with Yorkshire
Spoken like a southerner ;-)
I'm currently a southerner, living in Bristol. But I'd still rather travel to Yorkshire rather than Kent! There's this annoying thing called London in the way, which adds stress and considerable time, whatever method of transport you use.
I will make the effort anyway, because I want to go to the BJC. But I can see why anyone in the Midlands or above would think twice.
Canterbury is more than twice as far from the centre of the UK population as Darton is.
Where's the centre of the UK population?
About one in seven live in London, must be getting on for a third of the population are South of Watford.
From a comment on an Ordnance Survey page: "Yes, one of our Twitter followers suggested this too. It’s not something we’ve worked out ourselves, but @MurrayData says that using a population weighted approach centre of GB is approximately 433924E 309573N (Measham Rd Swadlincote Leics.)"
Click the pic link in the tweet: @JugglingEdge Pic for Monte: pic.twitter.com/Bitwm1Fb67
— The Void ザ・ヴォイド (@TheVoidTLMB) March 10, 2018
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
Yeah, erm, Swadlincote's in Derbys not Leics - only just, but Derbys nevertheless. Not a good start, although if I had to guess the GB population centre I'd probably go for somewhere not too far from Swad.
Also, Swad is mostly an unmitigated shithole, but then that probably makes it a good representative of some sort of median of the British population. I have worked a lot in Swad.
These Swad facts brought to you by Cedric Lackpot, who has nothing of value to add to this thread, but knows a damn thing or two about Swadlincote!
Mike Moore - - Parent #
I'd like to subscribe to Swad facts by Cedric Lackpot please.
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
J. Thomas Looney died at Swadlincote in 1944. 'Nuff said.
Llama_Bill - - Parent #
Measham Road to Darton BJC - 1:20
Measham Road to Canterbury BJC - 3:07
lukeburrage - - Parent #
The main reason I won’t be returning to the BJC again soon, and the reason why I don’t recommend it to European jugglers when they ask me about it, is the time of year and the accompanying high chances of bad weather.
That’s the reason I’m not going again this year. The better time of year is also the main reason I’m going to the Catch festival this year.
If the BJC was held in July, I’d probably go every year.
That's rather a silly reason not to recommend it, Luke. Yes, some BJCs have had awful weather, but plenty have had good weather, even the ones held in the far flung North. Also, last time I went to the Lakes in the summer we had really quite a lot of rain.
There's no guarantee of good weather at any time of year, although it's likely to be a lot warmer in the summer of course. I'd be more inclined to talk about the shows, workshops, halls and general vibe of the BJC than the weather - if nothing else, to avoid becoming a national stereotype!
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Not, it's not a silly reason. It's a major factor for me, and judging from the feedback I get from non-UK jugglers who visit the BJC, it's also the main complaint they have.
In Europe, if a convention is held in the winter, camping isn't expected. It's an indoor sleeping convention, with entire sports halls or other rooms set aside for people to lay out mats and sleeping bags. If the convention is late spring to early autumn, camping becomes an option. The BJC insists that camping is an option, even when the chances of bad weather is worse than good weather.
For example, Berlin held its convention in September last year, due to some date conflicts, and everyone expected the weather to be fine. But it wasn't. It was waaay colder than it is in May or June, the normal date for the event, and it got dark way earlier. So now the convention has moved back to the summer again.
Just so you know, the shows, workshops, halls and vibes at the BJC are no better than other national conventions in Europe. There is nothing to recommend them above conventions at better times of year and with better weather than the BJC. The chances of bad weather in March in Scotland though? Camping on the top of a mountain in Yorkshire in April, with tents being blown away? No thanks!
Rain isn't so much of a problem if the temperature isn't too bad. Just the difference from March to May was enough for it not to be too stressful for us to camp at Bungay. But the BJC that same year? Nope, we got a B&B.
Stephen Meschke - - Parent #
Canterberry in April:
- High: 52°F
- Low: 39°F
- Average 7 days of rain.
- 13.5 hours of daylight (+1 hr of twilight)
Cumbria in July:
- High: 63°F
- Low: 48°F
- 16 hours of daylight (+1.5 hrs of twilight)
lukeburrage - - Parent #
If you are wondering about reduced numbers of people at the BJOC, I think the comparison you want is Perth, Scotland, in March and anywhere in the UK in July.
Perth in March:
Average high 6.4°C
Average low 2.1°C
Canterbury in July:
Average high 22.8°C
Average low 12.9°C
Penrith (closest city to Appleby) in July:
Average high 19.4°C
Average low 10.5°C
Conclusion: if the BJC was in July, anywhere in the UK, I'd probably go and be okay to camp every year.
Little Paul - - Parent #
What’s with the crazy units?
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
I may not agree with a whole lot of what Luke has to say - and I'm pretty confident he's perfectly cool to be disagreed with - but I confidently and assertively agree that the climate is not a silly reason.
And it's certainly nowhere near as silly as saying that the British climate is unpredictable at all times of year, and therefore implying that the probability of seasonal or non-seasonal weather is immaterial regardless of the time in question!
There are a number of good reasons to hold BJCs at or around Easter - the weather is not one of them.
I have to agree, the damn weather and having to camp is always a factor that is lurking in the background, taking the edge off my anticipation. I am not the best camper - can't sleep well in a tent, so this year for the first time we have opted for the local Premier Inn. It does feel like a cop out but seeing as my hot water bottle is going to the IJC I couldn't face a week sleeping in a cold tent.
That being said the British EJC in 2019 will be in August and I am hoping that it will be considerably warmer and with little rain! Newark is only 50 miles from Swad so not far off being pretty central and we really really hope that we can entice as many jugglers, hoopers, diabolists, aerialists etc to it as we can.
As it is in Britain I am hoping to attract not only all the wonderful people from all over the world who come to EJC but all of those Brits that have never been to one before.
I know there is another EJC before it (2018 - Azores) but I am just slipping it in now so it's in your subconscious!!
PS the EJA are looking for a team for 2020, so if you know someone who might be interested in finding out more about organising a huge event like the EJC then send an email to info@eja.net
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Let me ponder my BJC camping history:
2000 - so wet I never pitched my tent, and slept in the car instead.
2001 - some nice weather, but freezing cold one night and as it pouring with rain on the last day, it was the least pleasant final day of a convention ever.
2002 - after two years of terrible weather, I skipped the BJC completely! I went to the Israeli convention instead. The weather was amazing.
2003 - didn't camp, got a room at the university instead. People complained about ice on their tents. This was Brighton, not Scotland, so the location isn't always the most important thing.
2004 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2005 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2006 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2007 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2008 - performer, and was provided accommodation.
2009 - got myself a B&B, but as this was a summer convention, I would probably have been happy to camp.
2010 - BJC switched back to a winter convention again, and I decided to skip it again.
2011 to 2013 - nope.
2014 - borrowed my parents' camper van.
2015 - camper van not an option, didn't want to camp in the same place where the previous year peoples' tents had blown away.
2016 - nope.
2017 - B&B again.
Ah look, I literally only camped at a BJC once! The only reason I kept going was being either by paying for accommodation myself, or being offered non-camping options for performing various acts in various shows.
Premier Inn is not a cop out, it's the only way sensible adults will keep returning to a camping convention in the winter/early spring!
This seems to be a wall of evidence that you have very little experience of camping at a BJC, but didn't enjoy it one time 7 years ago.
Doesn't seem fair to the British scene to spend so much time and energy discouraging others on that basis Luke.
lukeburrage - - Parent #
It's not just the camping. It's the general wet and cold atmosphere. In 2009 the convention was in the summer in Norfolk. I went to the FIRE SHOW. I sat outside and watched the fire show and it wasn't the most miserable moment of my entire year. Do you know how amazing that felt? A BJC fire show which wasn't utterly unbearable to watch. Wow. And in the evenings we were hanging out on the grass between the gyms. The renegade show tent didn't need space heaters. Nobody was wrapped up for winter for no reason at all except the sun had gone down. We could watch the Sharpe brothers do their street show, just outside one day, and it wasn't remarkable that the wind wasn't so bad they couldn't do any diabolo tricks.
Then my next BJC, when hosting the games, I had to make announcements that people's tents were blowing away, and they should go check on them before we left for the gala show.
It's not about my camping experience, it's about having a relaxing time at a convention.
Again, the Berlin convention miscalculated with holding it in September last year, and the very next year it is back to June, based ENTIRELY on the weather and how soon it got dark. How did it take them one year to learn the lesson but the BJC keeps at it?
I hope that after the Catch this year and the EJC next year, people will finally learn, and the BJC can be a summer convention from now on. Or at least a late-May to late-Augst convention.
It is true the BJC fire show is consistently unbearable to watch, but I have never attributed that fact to the weather.
*Tries to donate a fiver to The Edge, for that comment*
*Finds out there's a minimum £10 donation*
It wasn't *that* funny. Cash at BJC do ya?
Little Paul - - Parent #
It’s no Crawley fire show that’s for sure
As others have said, you've hardly ever camped at a BJC so I don't think you're really qualified to comment. I've camped at BJCs since 1993 (Birmingham) with a few gaps and I've never felt particularly cold, been woken up by bad weather or had a leaky tent. It has *been* cold, I agree, but with decent clothing and a good sleeping bag that's not a problem. Yes, it can be cold & wet outside but I've also sat outside on the grass in a T-shirt some years. In fact the one time I've been flooded out was at EJC Ptuj (which was the very definition of wet and cold and miserable).
Of course the BJC could be in the summer. It has been, in Norwich, after plans for the usual time fell through, as you said, and it was lovely and warm. It could be any time from late May (but don't you dare schedule it against Bungay, otherwise I shall be *really* scathing). It could be at Christmas. But someone has to stand up and volunteer to run it at that time and this bid has to be voted through at the business meeting - you know how this works. They'll then have to contend with competing with other festivals (including non-juggling ones), university exams and all the others things that may not have such impact in late March/early April/Easterish, availability of venues not in the Easter holidays and lots of other factors.
There's no point writing 'people will actually learn' in the hope it will happen - it will take someone to stand up and come up with a concrete plan for a summer BJC. As you know, there's no British Juggling Association running BJCs <nails lid firmly back on big can of worms> just whoever stands up and volunteers a year of their life.
I think we have an interesting situation this year with Catch! which is kind of an alternative BJC-ish thing in the summer with great acts in the show. This may well prove that a summer BJC-ish festival could work, in which case I look forward to many more bids of this kind.
lukeburrage - - Parent #
No, I think I am qualified to comment. The point of my comment is that the bad weather has been the deciding factor in why I decided not to go to the BJC. And not just once. After York and Cardiff, I didn't go back to the BJC, and went somewhere else instead. Same in 2010. Same in 2015. Same in 2017.
The people who are happy to camp in the ice/snow/wind/rain/etc of the UK in March/April? You don't have to worry about them. But what about all the people whose first BJC was Derby in 2004? How many people didn't bother coming back the next year? Even though I didn't camp, I drove home to Newcastle with two people who did, and the stop in a pub on the way home for dinner, and sitting in front of the fire, was the first time they had felt properly warm and comfortable for the previous five days.
The people who don't go to the BJC are the ones qualified to talk about why they don't go, and are 100% correct about the reasons the numbers might be down... at least for the number they represent.
The people who DO go to the BJC, by the fact they can cope with the stress of bad weather, are not qualified to talk about the reasons the people who don't go aren't going.
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
I've gone to the BJC once (I think 2015?). I had to sleep inside on the last night, it was a rainy festival.
I'm going again this year, very happy to bring my campervan!
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
That's a good point, no one likes going anywhere when it's cold and sodden. Why don't they hold the festival mid-summer?
The historic reason for the BJC being at Easter rather than in the summer is that performers are much more likely to not be working at that time. Whether as a performer in the show who charges less than their normal fee or as an attending performer who doesn't want to miss out on the lucrative summer months Easter makes much more sense. Touring circus often runs from after Easter until sometime in Autumn, so the timing would help them to attend. Nowadays BJC does not have as many professional entertainers and so this is not as good an argument as before. It still might mean that it is difficult to get the best professionals, although Rosie seems to be showing that a summer convention with enough funding can do that anyway.
Nigel
lukeburrage - - Parent #
If you get 2,000 people at the convention, you can pay professionals to be there. It’s how the EJC works. There is no reason a BJC in the summer can’t attract 2,000 people.
I wasn't arguing in favour of an Easter BJC. I too enjoyed the summer BJC (although it cost me earnings). I was giving one of the traditional arguments for an Easter BJC. It makes sense for professional entertainers. I'm not sure it makes much sense for the majority of people who now attend the BJC.
Nigel
lukeburrage - - Parent #
Yes, I understand. My first BJC in 2000, it seemed that the main influence on a large portion of the jugglers there was street performers and circus performers. These days the largest influence is other amateur jugglers. Why would anyone have a pair of stilts or a unicycle to take part in a parade? Why does the parade even exist? Does it still exist?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Oh god. Parades. Please make them stop.
I know it's quite often a hook you can dangle towards the local city council to get some money off a venue, or land some other source of funding, but when you promise them a "colourful entertaining parade of jugglers acrobats and circus folk!" they picture an old fashioned circus parade. They picture tumbling acrobats, sequins and clowns. They picture free facepainting for the public, they picture ringmasters and jugglers and absolutely everything you can't deliver.
What they inevitably get is a bunch of people half heartedly walking along juggling 3 clubs or spinning a diabolo while talking to their mates and shuffling down the local high street. At best you might get one or two people wearing balloon hats, or a teenage unicyclist trial riding on every park bench or raised flower bed they can find.
Parades are at their absolute worst when everyone is only there because you made them attend the parade as a side effect of getting the bus into town for the evening show.
Parades are shit. "Because we've always done it" isn't a good enough reason.
Stop it
Just...
stop.
(and.... *breathe*)
lukeburrage - - Parent #
EJC parades can still be good fun if the weather is nice. There's often an open air show on a specially build stage at the end of it, and those are usually worth seeing, like Smashed by the Gandinis in Almere (though not like 8 Songs by the Gandinis in Lublin).
Little Paul - - Parent #
Is it the parade which is good, or is it the "show on the open air stage" bit which is good?
Because I would wager that of the two, the open air show is the bit that could stand on it's own. Do that, do more of that. Advertise it locally, get the public in as well, make a big deal of the fact that there's a show in town!
Who is the parade for?
If it's for the locals, then we're doing them a massive disservice (even EJC parades are closer to the atmosphere of a protest march than they are "rio carnival")
If it's for the jugglers, then what's in it for us apart from a show or "the games" at the end of it? If it's a show/games then why do we need to wander round the streets for an hour first? Why can't we be dropped off next to the show and just get on with the good bit?
Want to do something for the locals that actually shows jugglers in a good light? Put on more shows, run a street performing competition, run free-fringe style events in small local venues...
Just please, not a bloody miserable death march through town.
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
As a young juggler I really enjoyed my first 5 parades or so.. Now after 15 at least it gets a bit unexciting yes..
I've really enjoyed the EJC parades I've been on, simply due to the amount of jugglers taking part - I think there's a critical mass. EJC Almere was particularly fun (especially our Ben occasionally pausing to show the crowd his single diabolo trick and getting rounds of applause - he was 6 at the time) and EJC in Carvin was mad, as it was at night and there was fire (health & safety??). I agree some BJC parades can be damp and disappointing.
I have exactly the opposite logic. BJC is my preferred convention because it's much cooler than in the summer. This means that I can juggle a lot without getting too hot. I don't care much about being outside. At most EJCs I've been to I'm unable to juggle most of the time because of the heat and I don't like to be outside in very hot conditions because of sunburn and other risks. I normally only go to the more northerly EJCs, although Joensuu didn't work out as I expected (40°C).
Also no fun when you have to leave your tent at 8am because the blazing sun is hitting it and roasting you alive. I've camped at every BJC I've been to and the only time I was cold was 2003 in Brighton because of the ice/snow.
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
You're not a tropical creature like me. Give me the early morning roasting sun anyday. I'd just go and find a nice shady spot and finish my sleep there. Or go to bed earlier. Camping in the snow.. are you quite mad? I went 'wild' camping at Brecon Beacons after the green man festival. It was horrible, damp and miserable.. couldn't wait for it to end. The only enjoying part I remember was when I was sitting in my car with the heating on.
I'm going for the first time from the continent just because it's close to the border! Don't kill my hype :P
Llama_Bill - - Parent #
You'll have a great time. I've enjoyed every BJC I've been to. I am excited for this one.
You will indeed have an excellent time. Sadly I don't think I can make it this time (due to foreign travel for work the next week) but I'll certainly miss it.
Enjoy - and if you have any questions, I'll probably be at the registration / information desk!
Given I barely saw you out of the kitchen, did BJC feel significantly smaller to you than previously? I understand that total numbers were around 700 but hadn't been properly counted when I heard Anna discuss this with Owen Morse after the business meeting.
Nigel
Nigel, in your current thread "For several years now I have been suggesting a juggling competition for older…" you wrote "If the BJC doesn't happen next year (or even if it does)". May I ask if there there is any particular reason for suggesting there may not be a BJC next year?
Cheers,
Chris
During the Sunday meeting nobody stood up and said that they wanted to run a BJC in 2019. During the BJC I heard on several occasions people saying that there wouldn't be a BJC because EJC was in England next year. I am not strongly optimistic about a BJC next year because I haven't heard any great enthusiasm from anyone although I have now heard rumours about people thinking about it 'up north'.
Nigel
I know one person who has an excellent venue and good plans for putting a bid together for 2019. They've never run one but assisted, so know what's involved. Just looking to put together a local team I think. Hopefully their initial thoughts and ideas will come through and they'll make themselves known soon.
Another team was interested and had ideas of a venue but nothing firm.
Got some kururin.
http://juggling.tv/16403
pumpkineater23 - - Parent #
Looks like a fun twiddly kind of thing. I liked when it stopped vertically 'on its own' (0:38). Do you think a three Kururin pattern would be possible?
Undoubtedly. What exactly that pattern would be, whether including "trap-stops" or "free-stops" (I don't know the terminology. I head people saying "stonk" at BJC, but wasn't paying enough attention to know what that means.) or both, is open to question. But if someone's dedicated enough, they'll nail at least a simple 3-kururin pattern, for sure.
I'm probably not dedicated enough, and I only own 2. Over to you! :-)
Little Paul - - Parent #
Someone whose name escapes me was trying a cascade with three at BJC, although 5-kururin-1-count was apparently easier.
If you raise one end of the table and roll them uphill, you can get them to come back to you as well, which opens up a lot of other options.
It might have been Will and Mike doing the 5 kururin 1 count.
I had a reasonable 2 kururin shower using a double roll on my second attempt. A 3 shower should be fairly easy using multiple rolls and a cascade should be fairly straightforward.
I just need to make some matching ones, once my frozen shoulder recovers and I can get out to the workshop
That was Mark who coined the verb "to stonk" (and noun "stonker") while we were sitting around playing one evening. If you push it with too much force, and it fails flat on the table, this we dubbed a flopper.
Avril & I then spent a few hours playing a table-wide game of "Land a stonker as close to the opposite edge of the table as possible."
The name stonker is perhaps a bit stupid, but a name was needed, and it's started to stick now.
I think the most accepted name for when the Kururin stops vertically without external influence is "ghost".
It's slowing down but the most popular online Kururin community I know of is on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/377903982559978/?fref=nf
There used to be loads of posts each day but not much is happening now.
One of my Kururin's has very smooth silicone pads, at the workshop Duncan organised I managed to get it to roll, then stop and change direction (on a level surface) because the pads sometimes get stuck. It's looks very strange when that happens. I think it might be interesting to add magnets to the ends to see what strange tricks can be done.
Little Paul - #
Kururin - seems to be growing in popularity in the USA at the moment, but I hadn't seen it:
https://youtu.be/CN0GxoD_6g4
Does anyone have a source for them in the U.K.? It seems like just the sort of thing I could get stuck into.
Alternatively, does anyone with a lathe fancy making some up before BJC? There's a template here https://postimg.org/image/8ek05j93n/
I'll try one next time I'm in the shed but I suspect that it might be better to CNC them to get a matching curve at each end.
I've been following the facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/377903982559978/
I was planning to bring a few to the BJC and maybe run a short workshop to let people try. I think a European distributor is being sorted out for the Comcell Kururins is being sorted out.
My Kururin shape designer:
https://youtu.be/u-7B1mDVLxs
Me making one:
https://youtu.be/UXuQS1VkpDM
Here are two ways to make one: https://youtu.be/GZ_oxNaSLyk
I'd already printed out and laminated a template and have just ordered some foam. I might have time to try one on Wednesday. It should be a good way to use up off cuts - I have lots!
I made up a little gauge to help making them if that's of any use: https://jonathanjamieson.com/2017/02/25/kururin-gauge-design-files/
Nice gauge. I guess you know that the one in the picture is labelled gouge?
No laser cutter here so I'll be going for the template and calliper method.
Yeah, that spelling has caused a number of problems with file names and links going wrong... I just can't get it in my head that's how to spell it! I am going to update the photos soon but I didn't have any of the correctly spelled gauges cut at the time. You can print off and cut my one out, it comes as a PDF but if you have multiple calipers it's probably not worth it. I only have one pair.
Will you be at the BJC? If so I can cut you one, I have lots of spare acrylic so it's no problem at all.
You can never have too many calipers!
Thanks for the offer of an acylic template. Yes, I'll be at BJC - haven't missed one since I started many years ago.
Haven't had a chance to make any yet - instead I've just had a couple of evenings sat on a beach watching the northern lights :-D
Very jealous. We're heading north tonight for a bothy trip, fingers crossed to see the Northern lights but the forecast isn't great I think.
I have only just got into turning. There are so many things to buy I only have one set of outer calipers so I soon got frustrated when I had to keep changing them. I'll bring a few of the gauges with with me, so if anyone else wants one they can too.
Bothy trips are fun - which one you heading to? I was thinking of heading up somewhere in Scotland next week, or maybe just out to one of my local Northumberland ones
Peanmeanach Bothy - was an incredible weekend! Fire me an email (unigamer@gmail.com) so we don't fill up Small Talk!
I've made 10 or so from various off cuts and most seem to work reasonably well. It'll be interesting to see how they compare to yours.
Nice instructable - it was on the staff pick of the week. The sanding jig is an interesting idea - I noticed that one of mine isn't sanded flat but it still seems to work ok
Little Paul - - Parent #
That was the video that originally sent me off down the youtube rabbit hole on this one. I'm trying to find myself the time and space to have a go at a modified version of the second method (as I don't have a lathe) It'll involve a certain amount of making an improvised lathe out of a power drill and a vice....[1] but the threaded rod used as a tap is a nice touch.
Duncan, I apologise for shamelessly baiting you into making one - but it did strike me as being right up your street :)
[1] as AvE says "tighten her until she cracks, then back off half a turn"
Saw this on Facebook. Actually pretty cool! Seeing this idea brings many others to my mind. Neat.
https://www.facebook.com/pindaloo/?hc_ref=ADS&fref=nf&ft[tn]=kC&ft[qid]=6338935138289143595&ft[mf_story_key]=7665595338987024720&ft[ei]=AI%404e1c8983e934180f28fa3cd8568235ef&ft[fbfeed_location]=1&ft[insertion_position]=1&__md__=1
There was an open stage act at one of the EJCs, possibly Karlsruhe 2000, where they did this using larger diameter pipe (gas pipe I think) where the bore matched those plastic water filled boule balls. The pipe had a length of string across the top to keep the U shape.
They then held workshops and sold the pipes.
It was fun - interesting tricks as shown in that Facebook clip but because of the weight of the balls you could do things like leave one ball at the bottom of the U and do Newton's cradle like energy transfers - incoming ball could be used to knock the bottom ball into motion. And the balls were normal juggling ball size.
If I remember correctly, Guy Heathcote did a routine at Bristol convention, circa 2000, using a u-pipe and 2 balls. Or it might have been a half-u-pipe. Does anyone else remember that?
Guy Healthcare routine was at Bristol BJC 1998. Involved two different size pipes and another person. It appears briefly on the official video.
Nigel
Something like this appeared in Kaskade many years ago, the pipe juggling content is also available from the authors' website:
https://www.hat-artistik.de/pipe/
Spinning large metal bowls.
https://youtu.be/GHXmf5O4TT8
That is all.
Gorgeous. Wonderful! Gorgeous and wonderful.
So this is. How you can be spinning and lying. And bending and flexing. At the same. Time.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Thank you!!
I love this type of bowl spinning, but it's really hard to find videos of. It seems to be a popular (possibly even traditional?) act in African circus, but every time I've searched for it I end up with cricket videos!
Searching for "dish spinning" instead has got me a bit further, although I've only really found 2 or 3 performers including this chap - but this is by far the clearest video of his skills.
I also ended up watching some videos of washing machines going through their full cycle - YouTube is a rather strange place...
Specially for you LP - a short clip, but the only bowl spinning I could find:
https://youtu.be/rX0MCxqAhTQ
Here's a related skill - big plates instead of big bowls:
https://youtu.be/OmPRVk_GMg8
This is actually quite a special act as it won a gold medal at the Chinese National Acrobatics Competition in the 1990s, in part because this was the first time big plates had been spun in this way. The full act is 10 minutes long, so I've just excerpted the one trick.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Thanks :)
In my memory, the first time I saw this the bowls were red/white mottled plastic a bit like this https://s857.photobucket.com/user/muhammad_adeel/media/bowls33.jpg.html
I remember seeing some for sale in a shop in the UK a number of years back, but I've never seen them since and I always fancied having a go
Little Paul - - Parent #
Hmm. Seems The Edge doesn't like the .jpg.html extension on that URL, either cut and paste or try https://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab135/muhammad_adeel/bowls33.jpg
All the ones I've seen have the indentation in the centre, so appear to be specifically made for juggling. I guess if you got a plastic one you could try to heat-mould a dent into the bottom. Interesting challenge...
I bought a spinning bowl from the U.S. in the 90s, for a production of Barnum - it was aluminium, huge, and expensive! Can't remember which supplier - prob not Dubé, maybe Todd Smith or Renegade.
Here's a nice one:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/chrome-jugglers-spinning-bowl-chrome-1737656925
Can't be bothered signing up to see what it sold for - if you do, let us know?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Back when I first saw this type of act (with the plastic basins) I was under the assumption that they were the African equivalent of gentleman juggler routines, in that these huge bowls were in common use in that location (for cooking/washing/whatever) and they were making use of locally available objects.
Like gentleman jugglers, it's not unreasonable to assume that some levels of performer adapted common household items, and that other levels of performer went out of their way to procure special props.
Having played around with spinning regular plates on sticks/fingers I can see how you could go from padiddling to a spin with little modification to the bowl. I can also see that the overly conical bases would make it even easier and give prop-vendors an excuse to sell you a prop.
The easiest way to modify a plastic bowl would be to turn it rim-down and then hold it over a heat source. The base should then sag into a concave shape, and you wouldn't need much of an indent to stop procession when the bowl when is spun.
Now all I've got to do is find a source of suitably huge plastic bowls...
...and somewhere in my house to keep them!
Little Paul - - Parent #
See the bowls half way back the picture in https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qrL6wxWzSI8/UkQBf4bh00I/AAAAAAAAAnY/vxXrk-2_m0Y/s1600/market_liberia.JPG
My initial thought for a source was garden planters, but unable to find anything uk based after 5 minutes of searching. These ones in the US are a nice size though:
https://www.riverside-plastics.com/low-cylinder-planters.html
Little Paul - - Parent #
I think those are probably too heavy (based on similarly constructed planters I grew potatoes in a few years back)
I do have a few wholesalers in Bristol to visit, the sort of places that supply market stalls and pound shops...
Hopefully one of them will sell massive plastic tubs :)
Is 45cm diam too small? I know it's not 'huge' but it might be a starting point... (Awful colour though)
https://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/163-litre-round-basin-374089
Little Paul - - Parent #
I think I want something at least twice that diameter :(
Wow, that's enormous! In both bowl vids in this thread the bowls looks to be roughly shoulder-width size, which on me is about 47cm. I gather you're going for a particular effect?
Little Paul - - Parent #
Waving my hands about trying to visualise what I had in mind, I'm expecting a bowl 70 to 80cm in diameter. Which is bigger than the large plates in your chinese video, but about the same as the video that set me off?
If you are going to do this properly you would ideally need to cut out a thick wooden ring, the outer edge being the same size as the washing-up bowl or similar that you are melting. The inner edge restricting the size of the melted dip to more easily hide the modification of the bowl. Done properly all the bowls would stack and would also provide space to store other kit inside, thus restricting the amount of extra space needed in the house.
If you do make some that work I'll buy a few from you :-)
Nigel
If they somehow made a lot of noise as well I'd be really happy
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
If I am going to grow old some day, I'd love to have a workshop and a turning table to use in my abundant free time.
Anyway, aluminum spinning doesn't seem too difficult, a quick google got me this excellent guide:
https://www.fdp.nu/mikelldevice/spinning.pdf
And a quick video as a demonstration
https://youtu.be/Vh2yM_sRGr0
If you have a turn table, why not give it a go? :p
Little Paul - - Parent #
Heh!
I strongly suspect aluminium spinning is harder than it looks, and buying suitable kit to do it at the scale required would be more expensive than buying some bowls!
Much more fun though.
I have a wood lathe that would do a bowl 52cm diameter but I have no experience of metal spinning, though I've often thought about trying it. I'd need to make some tools and a tool rest and sort out a decent former.
For anything larger than this size you're probably going to need specialist kit so either expensive or home made (there's a couple of spinning lathes on ebay at the minute - one for $8700 and one for $18000)
It doesn't look too difficult to do but no doubt takes many hours of practice.
Charlie might know more about it as I think his family used the method in pewter production.
As much fun as it might be to make your own bowls, https://www.metalspinningdirect.com/ may do short runs or one-offs for you.
Spinning would certainly work but yes, it's hard and I suspect getting to the level of skill you'd need to produce a properly weighted prop would take a while. IIRC the lathes used were quite meaty too, bearing in mind you're using a long rounded rod and a series of pegs to brace it against. I concur with Duncan, the easiest thing would be to get props made by a spinning company.
In other news, I've finally started putting a new watertight roof on my workshop so that lathe you gave me many moons ago might make an appearance soon, Duncan. Then again, it's as ever only one of many, many projects....
Found in the bottom of a box when tidying up the garage ...
https://i.imgur.com/GHUPQB1.jpg
How many can you identify? There's some pretty old ones in there, close to 20 years old.
Daniel Simu - - Parent #
Hey that looks like a box I threw away years ago... That one also had a rubber ducky, though I bet it is from a different con...
Nope, I can't identify any! Except for the Henrys sticker..
lukeburrage - - Parent #
I have a big box of all kinds of passes and tickets and wrist bands from 18 years of conventioneering. If I move house in a few months, I might go through the box and sort them all out.
I spot (from conventions I went to):
BJC 2001 Cardiff
BJC 2k York
London 2002?
Leeds 2002?
Was the Jenga piece a chocfest? Or do I just remember a big Jenga at a chocfest?
The fake finger from Birmingham university convention. Right?
I also have a toothbrush and a rubber duck, but I've no idea where from.
Little Paul - - Parent #
The rubber duck was BJC Bristol, I too have a toothbrush but no idea where from
Little Paul - - Parent #
Or more correctly, as they put it at the business meeting, the string was the pass from BJC Bristol.
The ducks were just a decoy...
The toothbrush was from an early Lancaster convention, possibly 1996 or 1997.
I also used to have a Bristol BJC duck.
Little Paul - - Parent #
Having just checked, my toothbrush is white and a different shape to Colin's.
I don't remember going to a Lancaster convention (and didn't really start doing ones avers in earnest until about 97/98) so perhaps mine is from some other fest
Little Paul - - Parent #
Bloody autocorrect "one dayers"
idk I have a toothbrush also and I'm pretty sure I just bought it to brush my teeth with.
I think you might be right, I remember going to a few Lancaster conventions quite early on in my 'juggling life'
Lancaster Halloween Convention - 1995. My first convention...
I think you performed there Colin, along with Guy Heathcote.
Did I? Wow - you're memory is much better than mine. I should dig out that Leftfield CD and see if I can still remember the routine!
Oh yes, BJC Bristol - I remember it taking hours to get there by car from Leeds because of all the floods. We had to sleep in the car overnight somewhere near Warwick. Happy times!
Danny Colyer - - Parent #
Missaltoad (I loved that convention), Bristol BJC and York BJC stand out.
Danny Colyer - - Parent #
Weekend convention held in a sports hall in Bath (camping in the sports hall) in December 1995. Organised by Claire Jackson as a prelude to organising a BJC (Bristol 98).
Blimey I think I was at that one - I definitely was at a 2 day one before the Bristol BJC anyway. I remember a great show. One act was some school kids and we all groaned and expected to have to applaud politely before they went away but it turned out they were a fantastic local acro team and they were bloody brilliant.
The orange/blue angel/demon tag was the Edinburgh EJC (1998). Very wonderful it was too.
Andy Fraser's convention pass pages might be able to help
https://juggle.me.uk/conventionpasses/home.html
Looking at the BJC pass page it hasn't been updated since 2006
Had a quick glance on Andy's page and could help with one unknown. Was there ever more than one Taunton convention?
Nigel
Richard Loxley - - Parent #
I think Taunton ran for a few years.
Very sweet little convention, and I remember a great post-convention party in a barn with camping on a very windswept field.
Richard Loxley - - Parent #
For BJC passes most are identified on the BJC wiki:
https://thebritishjugglingconvention.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Previous_Convention_Passes
(I photographed a few of these, as well as scanning in flyers and booklets for many of the older convention pages.)
What is the single, most incredible feat of juggling you have ever witnessed? In person, or in video?
I really don't know what to say here, there is so much... So I'll hold my opinion until other people chime in.
I've got a fairly strong feeling that we had a thread with almost exactly that title before. But I just tried a few searches and couldn't find it. Maybe my memory's stretching back to RJ days.
Anyone else remember this?
Brook Roberts - - Parent #
I remember a thread about this on RJ a long time ago and think I remember my answer too! (I anwered seeing dietz multiplex from 6 ball fountain to 6 hall hi-mid-low shower, but it was a long time ago and I couldn't find the thread again).
First thing that comes to mind is I believe from "28 years of Thomas Dietz".
Where the girl drops a club and Thomas catches it to go from 6 to 7 clubs (or from 5 to 6?)
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/08/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-1/
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/20/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-2/
http://ezine.juggle.org/2013/12/31/the-greatest-juggling-tricks-of-all-time-part-3/
David Cain
mike.armstrong - - Parent #
The steal and return from a five club cascade in Get the Shoes' Matrix/kung fu routine
GTs did pop into my mind too.
http://juggling.tv/2514 ...for the uninitiated.
That whole (dropless!) routine is something I would really love to have seen live.
Is that signature trick topped (in the gym) by this variant, which left me open-mouthed? https://vimeo.com/85896096#t=4m49s , Not a blind, backwards pass, but huge skill and coordination still involved. Bonus points for being a winning entry in Emily's competition too.
D'oh! Somehow managed to write that it wasn't a blind, backwards pass, when in fact it was too, just not an underhand one...
Little Paul - - Parent #
I'll chuck Bobby Mays match/cigarette trick in there, as it looks like nothing but is bastard hard.
Bobby May's trick is indeed amazing. I have tried many, MANY times to catch a cigarette in my mouth from a backcross and only get it very rarely.
I also heard that Enrico Rastelli could juggle 3 matches using only hand and wrist movement. Catching them with his thumb and index.
Anyway... A few on my list:
-7 Club 7-Up 360 (Gatto and Vova)
-11 Rings with a Headbounce (Gatto)
-11 Ball Qualify (Alex Barron)
-Gatto just Running 10 rings comfortably
-Anyone headbouncing 2 balls (actually have only seen 2 or 3 people do it - is it more common than this?)
-Toby doing 5 club Mills (better than anyone else, and comfortably)
I've also heard of someone (don't know who) doing a behind the back blind mill's mess. Is there any video of this?
I approve of your list. The 2 ball head bounce is not common at all these days. I can only think of Gatto running it for a reasonable length of time. I know that Lewis Kennedy can run it a bit. I got up to 13 bounces when I used to work on it, but that was exceptional. Best footage of a 2 ball head bounce has to be Evgeni Biljauer. I did see an old video of someone doing 3, but obviously not for long.
On the renegade stage at EJC in Svendborg, Denmark, Thomas Dietz did a routine. At the end (maybe after a very short break) he picked up 5 balls and juggled them on stage for 1 hour with clean finish. It wasn't that interesting to watch on it's own but after a while he moved to the back of the stage and continued whilst other acts came on and performed. At one point the lights briefly went out for one of the other acts and he kept the pattern going.
I'm not sure if his target was an hour but someone shouted that was the current record so he stopped then. We later found out the record had just recently been beaten so he didn't get it but so what, we knew we'd seen something amazing.
Cedric Lackpot - - Parent #
IIRC Tommi holds the 5b endurance record with a time of around 3hr 45min!