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The Void -

DCA collab vid 2017 - submit quick. Heads up for any DCA lapsers to get in quick for the collab vid this (last) year: http://diabolo.ca/forum/index.php?topic=13016.0

Jeff Adamus -

Madison Area Jugglers - Pattern Book was updated

Version 3.0 released - http://www.madjugglers.com/Madison%20Pattern%20Book

it's 35 MB

It's also available in github
*https://github.com/rabbidous/pattern-book
*https://github.com/wiscstatman/pattern-book ( small fork )

varkor -

Guinness world records for juggling...

I recently heard that for (some/all?) marathon-style events, GWR permits (accumulating) breaks every hour — for example, a 5-minute break every hour. Since the 3- and 4-ball endurance world records were both awarded by GWR, I was wondering whether anyone knew whether this was also the case for the juggling records?

Call me a purist, but it seems that, as impressive as juggling for 12 hours, with only short breaks in, is — it wouldn't be fair to strictly count time after taking breaks, and it'd be nice to know if this was the case for those records. Anyone know, or have any thoughts?

furlisht - - Parent

I'd like to know that as well, I always wondered how a normal human being deals with basic human commodity for 12 hours while juggling!

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

It's been suggested that an adult diaper might be helpful. Also drinking from a straw and being fed carefully.

Kelhoon - - Parent

or a few cycles of "eating the apple" ?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Once you sign up for doing an actual entry, you get an email including aaalll of the specifications and rules regarding that particular entry (if one has been set before). So I recommend pretending you're going to set something.
I've done so ages ago for a record, wasn't too complicated.

varkor - - Parent

Ah, that's good advice, thank you! I just sent a general enquiry a moment ago, but if they can't give me the information, I shall do that! I'll report back here when I know more.

varkor - - Parent

Their general enquiry reply was a lot of auto-generated nonsense, so I've submitted a record attempt form. Let's see where that goes...

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

Doesn't answer your questions, but here's an interview with the record holder that was just published: https://www.juggle.org/interview-david-slick/

Daniel Simu - - Parent

From the interview: "No breaks allowed and the throwing must alternate hands."

Daniel Simu - - Parent

And then in the promo video posted in the article there is a news caption:
"David Slick goes 12 hours without eating, drinking or bathroom break"

varkor - - Parent

That's much more detailed than anything I managed to find previously, thanks! That seems to support a continuous 12-hour record, which is comforting! (Especially the quotes about training for a long time to be able to do that.)

Jedi Juggler - - Parent

By "must alternate hands", does that mean you can't set records for synchronous patterns? Or would it still be alright since both hands are used? What about siteswaps with a "0" where you end up throwing with the same hand twice?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I guess for this particular record they want you to throw a cascade, and "must alternate hands" was the way Guinness describes the cascade. Of course one can try and be creative with the rules, but first we must consult the full rule document which Varkor might receive soon.

peterbone - - Parent

I think that the records they allow short breaks for are not skill based. For example, longest time spend video gaming.

Mike Moore -

ULTIMATE JUGGLING TRICKS CHALLENGE # 1 – BALLS

The IJA is running a (simplifying pretty heavily here) single round of global JUGGLE. Two parts: the first to set tricks/patterns jugglers think others may not be able to do, and the second for everyone to try to do those tricks/patterns. For this round, only toss juggling with balls is allowed (no endurances). Full rules here: https://www.juggle.org/ultimate-juggling-tricks-challenge-1-balls/

Luke made the very interesting prediction that every trick/pattern will be replicated by at least one other juggler. I'm very interested in this event, and to see if he's right! I'm assuming that there will be about a month allowed to try to replicate others' tricks, but I don't think that's been announced.

Two questions I'm curious about:
Do you think Luke's prediction will hold? If not, which patterns (and by whom) do you think will stand?
Do you like this event?

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I would love to see more juggling challenges, so thank you David for organizing this one!
I've suggested a couple to juggleshare, and since he seems to have disappeared I might run some myself at some point.

This particular challenge, I'm not sure about yet. For one, I might not want to encourage other jugglers to try out my coolest hardest most original tricks. Secondly I think that the incentive to try and beat a trick is relatively low. I might even try a trick that I like, manage to do it, but there is little to gain except for some exposure to then record it on camera. I don't mean that there should be better prizes or something like that, I believe that submitting to a challenge should be inherently interesting. But sure, if people feel like there is a big honor in submitting, it will work!

I do hope that there will be many participants, and I do hope this event sparks of more challenges in the future.
Here is the list of challenges I suggested earlier, anyone is free to take from these directly or as inspiration of course!

http://jugglingedge.com/forum.php?ThreadID=3063&SmallID=22747#Small22747

Mike Moore - - Parent

"Secondly I think that the incentive to try and beat a trick is relatively low."

While true, if there are any entries near my bailiwick, I'm going after them!

Out of my repertoire of patterns that I feel would be hard to replicate...I feel like they're all poking Haavard into participating. I haven't thought of any that I don't think he could do pretty quickly.

peterbone - - Parent

Alex Barron could just flash 13 balls (not too difficult for him) and no-one else would replicate it. There are others who can do things that no-one else is close to (long runs of 7 balls backcrosses for example). The question is if any of those people will enter.

Mike Moore - - Parent

Considering endurances are off limits, what are some other tricks/patterns you think are unique to certain jugglers?

peterbone - - Parent

I had forgotten that endurance is off limits. However, if Ty Tojo did something like a 7 up from backcrosses that would probably do it. Another off the top of my head would be one of Ofek's crazy multi pirouettes with 7 balls. Another possible way to go about this challenge would be to memorise and juggle a long prime siteswap for one cycle, as probably no-one else would bother to try.

Cedric Lackpot -

What ever happened to ... ?

So, I found myself thinking about Jouni Temonen, a fabulous juggler from Finland who I met maybe a dozen or so years ago, and he's one of those really great jugglers who seems to have dropped completely off the radar. And I started wondering whether it's because he's doing better, more professional things, or perhaps he's got a proper job/life/baby or whatever and doesn't really inhabit the juggling world so much any more.

And then that got me thinking about Joost Dessing, and wondering what on earth he's up to now. And the more you think about it, the more gifted talents you will remember that seem to have disappeared off the scene for one reason or another.

So who do you recall, who was infuriatingly talented but has since moved on with their lives?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Maybe Michael Falkov. One of the best 3b jugglers ever (IMO, top 3, arguably the very top), but is super off-grid. Not sure if he's juggled in the last ~2 years.

Orinoco - - Parent

Reuben Cohn-Gordon, Arron Gregg & Anthony Gatto (obviously!) are the names who immediately spring to my mind.

Similarly, is it my imagination or is the 'lifetime' of a juggler getting shorter? For example I feel that the more recent BYJotY competitors have not remained as visible in the scene as the earlier competitors (Norbi, Tiff, Tom Derrick, Arron Sparks, Jon Udry, Matt Pang etc.). Has the increased average skill level & easier access to the 'next big thing' made staying in the community's consciousness harder? Has the top level of juggling reached the point where physical limits are being hit & injury is forcing people out sooner?

Mike Moore - - Parent

Oof, I definitely miss Reuben Cohn-Gordon. I had a brief chat with him May 2014 when I was getting into squeeze catches. At that point he implied that he was still juggling some. Maybe there's hope.

It's an interesting point about youngins not staying on the scene as long these days. I got curious about IJA juniors winners...and I wish I knew if more of them still juggled. Below are some of the winners and whether or not they still juggle (to my knowledge)

2005
Komei Aoki - Yes
Takashi Kikyo - Yes

2006
Tony Pezzo - YES
Billy Watson - ?

2007
Nate Martin - ?
Teruki Okamoto - I think so

2008
Ben Hestness - ?

2009
David Ferman - ?
Jack Levy - ?

2010
Noah Malone - Yes
David Ferman - ?
Lauge Benjaminsen - Yes

2011
David Ferman - ?
Jack Denger - ? (stopped making videos)
Patrick Fraser - Pretty much stopped

2012
Kellin Quinn - YES
Jack Denger - ?
Ashley Ellis - ?

2013
Ashley Ellis - ?

It's Him - - Parent

It seems to me that the number of people entering BYJOTY has reduced and that the average skill level is also less. Whether this is because the people attending BJC are getting older (and hence less youngsters are around to compete) or the general skill level is higher and so the good youngsters don't stand out so much or some other reason I couldn't say. Still at least a few of the recent winners are still very much on the scene and in the community consciousness. It was only about 4 years ago that Arthur Hyam won.

Nigel

peterbone - - Parent

As well as other things in life getting in the way, one thing I've noticed based mainly on myself and is that as you get older you tend to seek praise from others less. This is why we make juggling videos of ourselves. As I get older I'm juggling just as much but making far fewer videos. People therefore think I've stopped juggling. I was recently asked to film a section for a video about people who've stopped juggling!

Dee - - Parent

What Joost is up to is very easy to find [he is based in Queen's in Belfast]. His research seems to have veered towards football rather than juggling (probably related to sources of funding).

Monte - - Parent

I miss Brian, nobody does a 5 cheese showers like he did.

Little Paul - - Parent

You’ve just reminded me of “Charlie Cheese and the wheel of cheese!”

It’s cheeky as cheese Charlie!

Orinoco -

You can now include links to instagram posts in the records section.

We also have a new +ringonankle modifier for Norbi Gatto style 'with a ring spinning on the ankle' type tricks.

That is all.

#NewFeature

Orinoco - - Parent

That should've been Norbi/Gatto. I'm pretty sure Norbi has not married into Nick's family.

Although I can't say that with complete certainty.

Mike Moore - - Parent

He wasn't at Turbo this year. Probably honeymooning.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

If only there was an "edit your post" feature ;)

Cedric Lackpot - - Parent

There is. In Reddit, Facebook, Instagram, blogs, forums, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all ...

Norbi - - Parent

Now just to add +ringonankle to http://www.jugglingedge.com/help/tossformat.php where she belongs

CameronFord -

So it’s the start of 2018 – Happy New Year jugglers!

The start of a new year is always a time to reflect on your life and where you want it to go… or to just completely ignore that and think about juggling, which is what I’ve opted to do:

So I’ve had lots of interesting conversations about how people practice juggling, when they started and how quickly they learnt certain tricks. One topic which often comes up is how Anthony Gatto practices. Obvious he’s pretty decent at juggling, so must have been doing something right when he practiced. I decided to try and emulate his practice.

DISCLAIMER: I think Anthony Gatto has a strong claim to the title of ‘best juggler of all time’ and I in no way think I will ever be anywhere near as good as him. I respect his ability immensely and if I say anything like ‘obviously he’s pretty decent at juggling’ like in the line above, I’m deliberately understating things for comic effect. Hopefully this explanation didn’t spoil that effect too much, but I would hate people to think that I don’t respect his ability or that I’m trying to compare myself to him in any way. I just want to get better at juggling, and tell a few jokes. I also don’t think I’m a particularly good solo juggler either, so any statements I make to the contrary are also jokes.
END OF DISCLAIMER.

After reading http://www.juggling.org/help/essays/gatto.html and watching some of https://youtu.be/gtsaTMdKVTM I think these are the key things I’ve learnt about how he practices:

1) Warm up with some gentle balance exercises.
2) Practice for one hour, but every day!
3) Work on each trick for no more than 2-3 minutes, take regular breaks.
4) Have a list of about 20 tricks you are working on, if you aren’t enjoying one, swap it out for another one.

I think the idea of this is you make slow progress on lots of tricks at once, and if you do this every day for 20 years you end up being the best juggler of all time or something. Sounds like a plan- anyone want to book 43 year old Cameron for a performance, he’s going to be awesome? (See disclaimer if you think I’m being arrogant…)

This is very different to how I practice. Sometimes I’m super motivated about one trick and work on just that for a whole session, sometimes I rattle through tricks more quickly. Sometimes I have seen someone do something at a convention which I want to try. Sometimes I have a new idea and want to try and come up with some tricks of my own. Sometimes I’m driving to Austria and don’t practice for a day. The point is, it varies- I don’t have a systematic juggling practice routine. I’ve got my juggling to a level I am proud of but I’m not the best of all time like Anthony… probably only like the 7th best of all time or something (see disclaimer).

I wonder how much better I would get if I started practicing like Anthony? That’s what I plan to find out over the next month or so, maybe with a few days off when I’m skiing/moving to Germany. Who knows, I’ll do it when I can though (I know this already doesn’t really fit with what he does given he did it every day but you know I’m doing my best…).
Right, so I’ll warm up with some balance stuff, cycle through tricks really quickly (I think I’ll have a timer running to keep me disciplined) now all I need is a list of 20 or so tricks:

Balance warm up:
Turn round, kneel down, stand up sit down stand up, clap behind balance, do Macarena etc with club in both nose, chin and forehead balance (2 minutes)
3 balls, 441, 4ball sync and async, 5 balls all with balance. Maybe flash 6. (5 minutes)
Ok, now I’m warm ish, maybe mills is also a good warm up for the arm? I want to work on mills anyways so let’s put some of that in:
Mills:
3 balls, 441, 531 (2 minutes)
4 balls, run, then 531 throwing 5 as under arm and as over arm. Kick up 3 to 4 (3-4 minutes)
5 balls, go for runs, try kick up 4 to 5 (3-4) minutes
I really want to get 5 ball mills looking nice it’s such a cool trick, seems weird only working on it 3-4 minutes but hey, let’s give it a go.
Pirouettes:
3 balls, 3 ups including linked 3 ups and 2 stage 720s (3-4 minutes)
4 balls, 4 ups out of both hands, 2 stage 720 out of sync? (3-4 minutes)
5 balls, 3 ups starting out of both hands, try and get 2 linked (3 minutes)
5 balls, try and land a 5 up out of both hands (3 minutes)
5 balls, 3 ups out of (6x,4)* ? (3 minutes)
I wonder if I’ll find the pirouette section tiring? Maybe I’ll switch this to being at the end after I try it tomorrow. What am I on now? 33 minutes or so, wow, that’s half my practice gone! Ok better get on with it:
5 ball siteswaps:
744 (1 minute)
645 (1 minute)
633 (1 minute)
94444 (1 minute)
97531 (2 minutes)
(8x,4)(4,4) out of (6x,4)* (2 minutes)
753 (1 minute)
Man that’s another 11 minutes gone, how did Anthony make this work? All I’ve done is balls. Crazy he was efficient enough using this practice to get at least as good as I am at all three props, if not better… (disclaimer).
6 ball practice:
3 in one hand, each way (1 minute)
One handed siteswaps with 3 balls like 432 and 42 each hand (2 minutes)
66661 (1 minute)
Run 6 async (2 minutes)
Run 6 sync (2 minutes)
Transition between sync and async (2 minutes)
Kick up 5 to 6 (1 minute)
Man I’m running out of time fast:
7 balls:
5 ball warm up, continuous 3 ups without spinning. 771. (2 minutes)
Try and get some runs of 7 balls (3 minutes)
It seems mad only trying 7 balls for that short an amount of time- I’m used to practicing it in half an hour stretches. I wonder if this will really help me improve?
Half showers:
5 ball half shower, throwing the odd high throw as a back cross (2 minutes)
6 ball half shower (2 minutes)

Man, that’s over an hour! This is insane, I have some other 3 ball tricks which I would love to get solid for an act in the future, I haven’t done any contortionist stuff, I haven’t practiced any of my shower tricks. There’s so many more ball tricks I can think of I want to work on and just as many club and ring tricks… I guess I’ll have to gradually change what is in my practice over the next 20 years so that I master clubs and rings too. Oh and head bounce. Also might take up cigar boxes. Should probably do some passing at some point too… hmmm.

I’m planning on trying this tomorrow after I’ve done some tutoring, if anyone has any feedback/suggestions of things to add or take out I would love to hear it.

I’ll post an update with how I found the practice tomorrow, and maybe again after 5 days or a week or something. Will definitely post again in 20 years when I’m the best of all time (disclaimer). Hopefully if you've read this far that last disclaimer was unnecessary. Bye x

Daniel Simu - - Parent

I always wonder how much this differs from his practice when he started out. This routine of his was perhaps built more to help him maintain the level he had, it could be different to the training he did when he was actively learning new skills!

CameronFord - - Parent

So if you follow the link from the post (http://www.juggling.org/help/essays/gatto.html) it describes how he tried juggling 4 clubs for the first time. Very different from my experience of learning 4 clubs- I remember putting in lots of hours and ending up with fairly battered forearms. It seems crazy to me that anyone can learn new tricks by spending such a short amount of time on them but I guess the key is doing it every single day. I guess the fact it seems crazy is why I want to try it for myself and see if it works for me :)
Obviously I can't know for certain but as far as I can tell this really is how he learnt new tricks as well as just maintaining ones he could do already.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Oof, different from my experience too. I spent a whole summer on 4 clubs..

Scott Seltzer - - Parent

https://www.juggle.org/anthony-gatto-interview-on-practicing/ the last question:

eJuggle: How has your practice style changed over the years?

Gatto: It has not altered too much. I follow the same structure as I used when I was ten. What I do now more than ever is listen to my body and do not force things to happen.

CameronFord - - Parent

Day 1 log now posted.

el_grimley - - Parent

I used an app called "action timer" for when I had to do a bunch of physio. Basically put in the length of time for each activity, the title and hit the go button. It will tell you what to do when (including rests). If you plan to do the same thing week in week out it might be a good way of getting consistency. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of similar apps which might fit your need if you don't like that one.

Stephen Meschke - - Parent

I have been using an app I created to structure my juggling training and collect juggling data. The Android app is called Routine Builder. It is available free in the Play store, and by email. Check out my training logs to see what the app can do.

peterbone - - Parent

Lets not forget that he also had a coach. Someone who watches closely from a different perspective and gives good feedback is invaluable. It is perhaps what allowed him to get so much out of such short sessions. The question is if the same practice structure is optimal for a juggler without a coach.

CameronFord - - Parent

Very true, I guess what I'm really testing is whether this 2-3 minutes per trick style of practice works better for me than my normal fewer tricks for a longer amount of time style. It's definitely different from what he did in a number of ways.

Mike Moore - - Parent

A while ago I was working on consistency of patterns. I made a recording of myself saying the name of a pattern I wanted to work on, then put in silence so the total track length was 30 seconds. I think I had something like 6 different tricks, so I duplicated each track 9 times to give me a total of a half hour of audio. I made this a playlist, hit shuffle, and BAM! I practiced in a very focused way for 30 minutes[1].

I did make a lot of progress during this time, but probably similar progress to when I practiced for the same amount of time by myself without such a rigid structure. Hard to tell.

[1] - For if you're having trouble understanding what I'm talking about, the session would sound like this:
"Around the head shower, right hand" [~30 seconds of silence]
"Blind behind the head" [~30 seconds of silence]
etc. etc. for 30 minutes.

Joerg - - Parent

As far as I understand your routine is a random circuit training, because you 'hit shuffle'.
I think that most people train in a linear way, one trick after another for a certain amount of time in a training session. I like the idea of a circuit training and for some tricks I have made good experience with something like A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D ... or A-B-C-D-B-C-E ... after a warmup and with short breaks in between. The letters are representing different tricks. At the end of a session I have repeated some tricks 2 or 3 times. 2-10 minutes per trick works well for me.

CameronFord - - Parent

I really like both these ideas, maybe I should switch up the order I do my tricks in rather than always sticking to the same order. Revisiting them in the same session is also an interesting idea... thanks for your ideas :)

LizzyPeat -

What insurance cover has your club got?
We are starting up the Newbury Juggling Club again (9th Jan 2018)
What insurance cover has your club got? How much money is it? What cover do you think is needed as a minimum?
We have no guidance from the school and I'm looking round for quotes.
Thanks!

LizzyPeat - - Parent

I should also say, the best quote we have had so far is from 'Ansvar Insurance' which includes Public & Products Liability at £1,000,000 (libel and slander cover at £10,000) for £69.20 for the year.

Daniel Simu - - Parent

Is this a thing in the UK? I know that every amateur juggling club in the Netherlands isn't insured...

Also, the first thing I thought when I read the post title is "Huh, it's only 25e to replace a pirouette, why would you want to insure them?" ;)

It's Him - - Parent

If your club is run by a person who is a member of Equity (costs around £130 p.a.) then they get £10m PLI automatically. However it might not be a good idea to advertise you have insurance as after seeing the dangerous things that Milton Keynes club has got up to over the last 25 years, you may not want to be the person going around saying "don't do that!". It might be better to supply new jugglers with a form to sign that states that you basically are hiring the hall and that anything stupid that the juggler does is entirely their responsibility.

Nigel

Alice - - Parent

We get our insurance from Showtime. We combine club and convention insurance as it is a little cheaper. Most standard policies are ,I believe, for up to 2 million. the school where we have the convention insist on 5 million which makes our insurance quite a bit more expensive. The quote you have sounds pretty good to me. As always you only know how good insurance is when you come to use it. Every year i email reiterating what we do,that the convention site is separate from the club etc just so I have something in writing in case of dispute.
I think clubs have to look at getting insurance,otherwise those running the clubs risk being personally liable for any claims. most university clubs have cover included as do some sports halls if you hire from them.
Alice

charlieh - - Parent

Ask Katie to ask the Camcircus committee, they'll know what we have. It's years since I knew what's current.

For those saying 'just get people to sign something' - this is a disclaimer, and these aren't really worth anything. You still need Public Liability Insurance to cover someone sueing your club if they get injured (bear in mind they may be the nicest person in the world but may still *have* to sue you if they get a life-altering injury - to provide medical care, or an income for the future).

Also, Equity PLI cover insures the person, not the club - so unless I'm running the Charlie Hull Juggling Club and I'm doing all the teaching it's not much use.

Yes, in a juggling world of people being known for amazing tricks and skills, one of my areas of knowledge is insurance. Sigh.

LizzyPeat - - Parent

Thank you all.

John R -

So hypothetically speaking, Other Helen S wants to send a hypothetical card to Little Paul and James, but doesn’t have a current address. Are any of the Bristol jugglers willing to act as accomodation addresses? Ta...

Little Paul - - Parent

If Helen were to email LP @ lpbkdotnet, a suitable address would be forthcoming :)

John R - - Parent

Thank you! I understand an email has now been sent...

Marvin -

The Green Eggs Report for December 2017 is now available. Last month 26 people made 70 posts containing 18 links. See past reports.

Mïark - - Parent

Can we get yearly Green Eggs Reports as well as monthly?

Marvin - - Parent

I suppose checking in once a year would be less depressing than checking in twelve times.

In the dismal year that was 2017, 131 people wrote 1920 posts containing 422 links across 349 threads. If you want to see previous years' totals I've addded those to the Green eggs report menu.

If you want a full report with all the links, hashtags & top posters you'll have to wait, Jon has me decreasing this year's wrapping paper to save for next year.


I'd wish you all a happy new year if I had any hope that it will be.

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